JMS Opinion on TNT

[CRONAN]

What the.....

I'd always assumed the sleek, black uniforms were jms's idea, and the clowns in space red and gray tnt's.

So is this to say that jms would have reverted to the clown costumes in the unfilmed crusade ep. To the Ends of the Earth!?

[chaostaenzer]

So is this to say that jms would have reverted to the clown costumes in the unfilmed crusade ep. To the Ends of the Earth!?

from the script, i got the impression that he is going back to the black costumes:

He [Gideon]comes INTO FRAME wearing the grey uniform. He pulls on his jacket, looks unhappily at the reflection in the mirror.

[...]

Gideon
One more thing. These new uniforms, how long have we been stuck with them now?

Matheson
Almost two months.

Gideon
And in those two months, have your communications with Earth given you any indication that the change to a more serious uniform has boosted morale back home?

Matheson
None whatsoever. You ask me, the change was made just to give the brass back home something to do.

Gideon
I agree. So I want you to send a message back home. Tell them à (I need bullshit) à tell them thereÆs been a horrible accident in the laundry. All of the new uniforms have been destroyed. Pending resupply, weÆre going back to the uniforms we started out with.

Matheson
Will do. But what happens when they check the computer logs and find out there was no accident?

Gideon
There will be, John. IÆll make sure of it.

They started out with the black ones(Racing the night was meant to be the first episode...and guess what they are wearing?).

[Bonehead]

Trouble is, the episodes were shown out of sequence. Have a look at some of the links in this thread (the ISNNEWS link is quite an eye opener), or do a search in the news archive.

If I remember rightly, TNT made JMS do the pilot episode, despite him having it planned quite differently. But the first five episodes JMS shot, were the grey uniform ones. ( so I recently found out) Then the changes began to be forced upon him.

[chaostaenzer]

Bonehead, you are, of course, right.

Some interesting quotes:

We made a change in uniforms after episode 5. So the plan was to air the first
5 or 6 episodes with the new costumes, then using a bridge episode (#6, which
you'll actually see next week) pave the way for the old costumes, then after
those five, go back (with another bridge episode) go back to the new costumes.

But we never got to make the second bridge episode. So we had to put all the
new uniform episodes in one clump at the start, and the old ones at the end.
"Patterns" and "Rules" for instance would have aired after the first 5/old
uniforms.

jms

and

TNT wanted the "new-look" episodes aired first. They wanted to push the first
5 back as far as possible. I initially figured we'd do 5-6 of the "new look"
ones first, the minimum possible, then the first 5, then the new-look (black
uniform) ones to the end.

TNT *mandated* that the black-uniform ones would go first. It was not my
choice. I have NO control over broadcast.

Not only did they want to hold them back, they were debating if they'd even
allow us to FINISH post on the first 5. It was a struggle to let them finish
'em, and they were the last ones to go through post.

last but not least

And that, for viewers, will be the most interesting part from my side of
things. The next 5 to be shown were the first five shot...and as you hit the
end of those five, ask one question: given what's in those five episodes, aside
from the uniforms (which would've been changed anyway) was this a show that
deserved to be shut down, messed with, and otherwise turned upside down?

[Joe Nazzaro]

I don't know if this will clarify anything or not, but I went through some of my old Crusade notes, and found this interview with Straczynski, which I did the first week in November of '98, just before they were about to start shooting 'War Zone.' I've included a small chunk of it below, including Joe's comments on the new uniforms, as well as the fact that he was going to be writing a scene later in the season to reconcile the 'old' and 'new' uniforms, at least initially...

I understand that you're now going to be doing a new æfirstÆ episode, called War Zone?
JMS: Early on, we were discussing back and forth, which way do we go to jump into the series, particularly since at that time we were looking at it airing right after æA Call To Arms.Æ There are two ways of going: either you jump right in and everybody knows each other, or you bring your team together, and neither decision is intrinsically better or worse than the other. ItÆs just dealerÆs choice, and it was more applicable to say, æLetÆs just jump in with them already going and doing their stuff.Æ The episode still works fine, but because thereÆs now going to be a gap between æA Call To ArmsÆ and when the series airs, because of problems with the NBA playoffs and other shit, they began to be concerned and so was I about reintroducing the concept of what happened, and giving the audience some background on the Drakh and the plague, and I thought, well, we might as well do an episode where our cast comes together for the first time, which takes place about three days after the events of æA Call To Arms,Æ as opposed to five months later, which was the case with the original æfirstÆ episode. If you look at the two shows in terms of tone, the ones produced after the hiatus and those produced before, I defy anybody to show me differences in the characterization and story and tone or anything else, because the show is the show; itÆs just a question of how we introduced the characters. We start shooting it on Friday.

Not only have you changed and added sets, but you've also redesigned the Excalibur uniforms?
JMS: We all looked at the costumes and ways to redesign them and make them a little more functional, a little more- I donÆt want to say casual, but they were almost a little too buttoned up. We pulled out a lot of photos from aviation and submarine magazines to see what kind of things they'd wear in these conditions, so they have kind of a T-shirt underneath it but looking relatively stylish, and we added pockets to the pants, so we were looking for things that were more functional for an explorer team. If youÆre going to be rummaging around planets, you want to be dressed in something that you can get in there and get dirty with and is functional, and we sort of put form over function in the first design, so we looked at them and tried to put function over form, so we redesigned them and TNT was very happy with them, and they were happy that the cast loved the new costumes. They loved the pockets, and theyÆre also able to pull off the arms, so if theyÆre in their quarters, they can be a bit more casual. TheyÆre a lot more utilitarian than the other ones were.

Will you be re-shooting anything from the first block of episodes?
JMS: TheyÆre okay as is. In the first of the five that will air in sequence- weÆll air the six produced after the hiatus and then the first five that were shot, and then go back into the rest of the episodes, and thereÆs a transitional episode that explains the costume change. IÆm too much of a continuity bug to just suddenly have them in different costumes, so I wrote a one-minute tease to drop into the top of the next episode that ties into that, or I may not, but thatÆs the only change weÆre talking about right now, to carry that explanation through, but I may not even end up doing that. Other than that, no, there are no plans to re-shoot anything.

[CRONAN]

Two Joes!?
And all this time I thought there was only one Joe...

AS to the character introduction thing, I much prefer the scenario where the characters meet each other for the first time, hence the word - ''introduction''. You get more insight, and there is more of a feel of a begining/starting point for the characters and the plot as opposed to filming the first ep. as just another day in a spaceship. It feels less recycled that way. It is a begining, and it should be treated like one.

Really, it just makes more sense.

[AaronB]

Personally, I like it the other way. It gives the feeling that there is a past that went on as opposed to just wasting an episode setting up their meeting for the first time. Those episodes always seem too forced imo. There is plenty of time to show the back history, including the meetings, in later episodes.

I don't think that there is a wrong way of doing it however. I just like it this way.

[grumbler]

I'm going with the Baron on this one. I thought, for instance, that the way Tolkien told the backhistory of the One Ring was infinitely superior to Jackson's. Let there be a little bit of mystery about the charactors, their relationships, and their motivations, and then reveal those over time. As TB says, though, it is purely a matter of personal preference.

[Dr Maturin]

I watched Crusade here and there from work during its original run and I saw War Zone when it aired on the SFC run 3 years ago. I had heard it was so terrible and what not, but I thought it was a pretty cool episode. The only forced part, to me, was the scene where Gideon asks Dureena to join the crew.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
I watched Crusade here and there from work during its original run and I saw War Zone when it aired on the SFC run 3 years ago. I had heard it was so terrible and what not, but I thought it was a pretty cool episode. The only forced part, to me, was the scene where Gideon asks Dureena to join the crew.

That, and the incredibly inane fight scene, and the "conversation" on Mars where it is clear the actors are not in the same room - and the infamous earth riot scenes. The show DID have its moments, though. In fact, when Max was on-screen the show had a lot of energy.

[Dr Maturin]

<<and the infamous earth riot scenes.>>

Now, what was the problem with those? I never understood that, either.

[NotKosh]

Maybe the original airing of that episode was too close to some UK/European football finals.

[CRONAN]

Whats the problem!?

How about the fact that the riots clearly take place in the world of today, as opposed to the world 200 years from now. Nowhere any where in the footage is there any sign of those 200 years having taken their toll.

For a sci-fi show, maintaining an air of credibility is an absolute must. Carelessness and sloppiness tend to corrupt whatever impact your trying to make on an audience, as the end result really does end up looking low-budget, lame, and extremely amateurish.

[Dr Maturin]

<<How about the fact that the riots clearly take place in the world of today, as opposed to the world 200 years from now. Nowhere any where in the footage is there any sign of those 200 years having taken their toll.>>

Taken their toll? Like what?

[CRONAN]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
<<How about the fact that the riots clearly take place in the world of today, as opposed to the world 200 years from now. Nowhere any where in the footage is there any sign of those 200 years having taken their toll.>>

Taken their toll? Like what?

This.....is stupid.

Sorry, but I just don't have it in me to address two dummy questions in a row.

Quote:
>If someone suggests replacing dialogue with actually showing
>an event that does not mean finding the worst looking riot footage possible.

Sorry, but that was also done at TNT's direction. They demanded the inclusion
of riot footage at the last moment to show the big repercussions, even though
nothing was available that would work. Nor would they give us much money to
buy anything else. Those were the shots that met with their approval.

-jms