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  • #1

    Help please about Technomages

    Ok, I re-watched Crusade the other day and was left with a few questions about Technomages. This would probably apply to those of you that have read the books, or maybe the other Crusade scripts (which I have not)

    1. Are they human ?. Something I'd never considered before but in two seperate episodes they hint at Earth being their home planet. Once by Galen, once by Alwen. If so, are they all human ? or are they a mixed group of different species.

    2. I read somewhere that Galen was the only one to have ever been thrown out or banished from the order. If so, what is Alwen's story ?

    3. Why does Galen use the words of Lorien at the beginning. ( Who are you, where are you going etc.) Surely he had never met Lorien.

    4. They mention that Elric is dead. Is this story ever eleborated on. Do we know how he died ?

    5. Galen also speaks of Elric as the leader. If so, why was he and his band meeting on B5 in plain sight, and leaving in an old Centauri transport ship. We know how advanced their ships are and we see in Crusade a fleet of their ships leaving together, indicating they all have their own ship. Surely they would have better ways to all meet up than in such a public place.

    6. How do they know of the Shadows. Is it just through legends like G'kar, or have they had first hand experience with them ?

    7. How does Elric know that Londo has been touched by darkness ? (I see a great hand ...speech) I thought their skills were magic and illusion, not telepathy.
    Last edited by Vir; 06-11-2004, 04:55 PM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Help please about Technomages

    Originally posted by Vir
    Ok, I re-watched Crusade the other day and was left with a few questions about Technomages. This would probably apply to those of you that have read the books, or maybe the other Crusade scripts (which I have not)

    1. Are they human ?. Something I'd never considered before but in two seperate episodes they hint at Earth being their home planet. Once by Galen, once by Alwen. If so, are they all human ? or are they a mixed group of different species.
    They are a mixed group from different races.

    2. I read somewhere that Galen was the only one to have ever been thrown out or banished from the order. If so, what is Alwen's story ?
    Alwen never accepted the exile and never went away. He was sentenced to death in absentia, but without any intention of carrying out the sentence.

    3. Why does Galen use the words of Lorien at the beginning. ( Who are you, where are you going etc.) Surely he had never met Lorien.
    That would be telling.

    4. They mention that Elric is dead. Is this story ever eleborated on. Do we know how he died ?
    Yes, but that also would be telling.

    5. Galen also speaks of Elric as the leader. If so, why was he and his band meeting on B5 in plain sight, and leaving in an old Centauri transport ship. We know how advanced their ships are and we see in Crusade a fleet of their ships leaving together, indicating they all have their own ship. Surely they would have better ways to all meet up than in such a public place.
    This is a good catch, and a plot element that... I cannot tell you about. Read the trilogy. I would note that this episode ends very diferently in the books, hence my "is the canon in play" thread.

    6. How do they know of the Shadows. Is it just through legends like G'kar, or have they had first hand experience with them ?
    That would be telling.

    7. How does Elric know that Londo has been touched by darkness ? (I see a great hand ...speech) I thought their skills were magic and illusion, not telepathy.
    Yes, he does... but not by telepathy. The Technomages have extremely small "eavesdropping" devices, and one was planted on Londo.

    I am willing to spoil the entire technomage series for you if you really want, but you have to specifically ask. Yours are good questions but the answers are the basis for the entire denoument of the TM trilogy. You should be congratulated on seeing them.
    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

    Comment

    • #3
      <<Yes, he does... but not by telepathy. The Technomages have extremely small "eavesdropping" devices, and one was planted on Londo.>>

      People always confuse the vision (hand and star) in The Coming of Shadows as a prediction by Elric, but it's the opposite. Elric put that idea into Londo's head, so that when he had the dream weeks later, it was a visual metaphor for where his life was heading. Just like when you talk to someone on the phone and they tell you what they look like, your mind's eye comes up with a visual.
      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

      Comment

      • #4
        Trilogy

        Yours are good questions but the answers are the basis for the entire denoument of the TM trilogy. You should be congratulated on seeing them.
        Well I'm sold. I was not sure if the trilogy would really do it for me. By the sounds of it, it will. I'm off to Amazon straight away. Thanks.
        Last edited by Vir; 06-12-2004, 02:56 AM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Here's a few jms posts on the tech tril, ones I agree with 100%

          --------------------------------------------------
          I'm reading the first installment of the Technomage trilogy now, and though I'm
          only about halfway done, I think it may be the best of the bunch. If there's
          any one of the books that I think could be considered Nebula material...it's
          this one.
          --------------
          The technomage trilogy, at this point, may work out to be my favorite, given
          how much of the B5 storyline it interweaves.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Trilogy

            Originally posted by Vir
            Well I'm sold. I was not sure if the trilogy would really do it for me. By the sounds of it, it will. I'm off to Amazon straight away. Thanks.
            Good choice. The trilogy seems to start slowly, because it is trying to get you to understand Technomage culture and thinking, but they are the only books that will make you think about the B5 universe in a completely different way by the end. There are several "Holy Shit!" moments in them in which you realize that you didn't understand some rather fundamental things.

            In a couple of cases you will note gratuitous challenges to the canon, but they aren't significant.
            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

            Comment

            • #7
              TM Trilogy is awesome

              I have read them twice. I would not say that they are the "only" books that made me think of the B5 universe differently, because the Psi Corps trilogy did as well. The world from the other side of the fence, and all.

              That said, the TM books were something that was long overdue. They took a single episode's plot device, such that if all you had seen was the TV would look like a dropped thread, and expand it greatly, and show how detailed jms' outlines were. Everything was intertwined, and done quite well. Only the tiny rewrite of the last scene of "Geometry" bit a little. But, overall....

              AMAZING.
              "Ivanova is God!"

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: TM Trilogy is awesome

                Originally posted by SpooRancher
                I have read them twice. I would not say that they are the "only" books that made me think of the B5 universe differently, because the Psi Corps trilogy did as well. The world from the other side of the fence, and all.
                Agreed that it was interesting to see the "view from the other side" but I think that little was actually added to the canon as it affected the two TV series. We got to see some peoples' ancestors in action and a little bit of the motivation for some charactors was added, but the TM series fundamentally redefined some concepts (or, better said, they defined some that JMS had let us misunderstand).

                The challenges to the canon included more than just GoS, though. Also challenged were the events in "Shadow Dancing" and, to some extent, "Z'Ha'Dum." Nothing major, as I noted, but a little jarring when you run across them.
                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Re: TM Trilogy is awesome

                  Originally posted by grumbler
                  Agreed that it was interesting to see the "view from the other side" but I think that little was actually added to the canon as it affected the two TV series. We got to see some peoples' ancestors in action and a little bit of the motivation for some charactors was added, but the TM series fundamentally redefined some concepts (or, better said, they defined some that JMS had let us misunderstand).

                  The challenges to the canon included more than just GoS, though. Also challenged were the events in "Shadow Dancing" and, to some extent, "Z'Ha'Dum." Nothing major, as I noted, but a little jarring when you run across them.
                  I read the TM trilogy, and they are great books.

                  I found them a major enhancement/fleshing in of a chunk of the B5 world. More so than the Psi-Corp trilogy.

                  There was definitely more happening in Z'Ha'Dum then you see in the ep, but I can't remember the Shadow Dancing tie in...
                  "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Re: Re: TM Trilogy is awesome

                    Originally posted by NotKosh
                    There was definitely more happening in Z'Ha'Dum then you see in the ep, but I can't remember the Shadow Dancing tie in...
                    Look in book 3, page 216. It changes who it was that realized the Shadow strategy and lead to the battle.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      <<Look in book 3, page 216. It changes who it was that realized the Shadow strategy and lead to the battle.>>

                      Well, that is just G giving him the clues. Isn't it? Are you upset it makes John look dumb?
                      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                        Well, that is just G giving him the clues. Isn't it? Are you upset it makes John look dumb?
                        No, he is pretty much spoon-feeding him the answer. I just find it jarring when a writer in a "shared universe" project steals the laurels from another writer's charactor - it just isn't usually done, and it was entirely inconsequential to the plot. It isn't a big deal, of course, as I noted above, just a bit jarring.
                        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          3. Why does Galen use the words of Lorien at the beginning. ( Who are you, where are you going etc.) Surely he had never met Lorien.
                          I always thought this was just a way to hint at the topics of Crusade, the three questions (Vorlon: who are you; Shadow: what do you want; Lorien: where are you going) defining the starting point. The other two new questions (who do you serve and who do you trust) not only left unanswered, but repeated at the end of the opening credits, pointed to what the series could have been.
                          I think the use of those questions was a nod to B5 more than a reference to any specific episode or character from the original series.
                          Notice that the other questions asked by Lorien (why are you here? do you have anything worth living for?) were not part of Crusade (as far as I can remember).

                          About the Technomages being human: my memory tells me that Londo actually made a point of saying that Elric was human in "Geometry of Shadows," which would imply that most technomages he had heard about before weren't.

                          I have yet to read for a second time the Technomage trilogy but I found it quite good, and I eagerly searched for the new volumes when it came out first. I originally thought it would deal with Galen in the times of Crusade, that it didn't extend to answer some of the questions left unanswered by Crusade is my only disappointment.
                          That's a very minor disappointment, coming out of my false expectations only, the Technomage trilogy together with Crusade made Galen one of my favorite characters in the B5 universe.
                          The way this trilogy details and explains the technomages is a really good expansion on the B5 Universe.
                          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
                            The way this trilogy details and explains the technomages is a really good expansion on the B5 Universe.
                            Yes, and is as good an example of synergy between the written and performed word as I can think of. The TM series told a story that could not have been told in a show, as so much was internal to the charactors. And yet it added a great deal of interest to the show, since when you see Galen in Crusade you know much more about what motivates him and what those "thingies" are! You know why Elric was doing what he was doing, and Alwyn as well. One of the best things about the books were that the charactors speak in exactly the voice they do in the show, and so your visual and aural memories never clash with what you are reading, and it all becomes a "more-than-just-reading" experience.

                            That's quite hard, I think, for a writer to do - to get someone else's charactors to speak in the voices the OTHER author assigned to them, and not in the ones YOU want to assign to them. Kudos to Cavelos for pulling that off.
                            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              <<No, he is pretty much spoon-feeding him the answer. I just find it jarring when a writer in a "shared universe" project steals the laurels from another writer's charactor - it just isn't usually done, and it was entirely inconsequential to the plot. It isn't a big deal, of course, as I noted above, just a bit jarring.>>

                              Good point. She was just trying to push Galen's wisdom, I guess. But then you have to take some away from Sheridan to do it. I guess JMS wouldn't have allowed it if he had a problem with it.
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment

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