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Did STAR WARS kill B5?

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  • #16
    "Rotten tomatoes" has some pretty amusing quotes from reviewers
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/clone_wars/

    it's especially sad that a few of the better Star Wars games feature not only significantly deeper stories, but also superior CGI, meaning that both this project's film and video game predecessors have already done better.

    In its own way THE CLONE WARS is quite an achievement: it almost perfectly synthesizes everything that has been wrong with the films since%u2026 oh, well - Return of the Jedi.

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    • #17
      In re: The original post, I think the writer makes a good point; he is not comparing B5 with Star Wars, he is pointing out that Star Wars tended to monopolize the SF conversation in the time period right after B5 ended, to the detriment of not just B5 sequels, but shows like Farscape. I am not sure the same applies to Firefly, as by 2002 the Star Wars concept had been pretty thoroughly de-deified.

      I think the point would be stronger if the author had claimed that The Phantom Menace represented a tipping point, at which the TV and movie audiences simply had seen enough SF to last them for a while. The year 1999 saw SF flicks in the #1, #2, and #4 positions. We haven't seen 3 SF films in the top ten since then, and only rarely 2.

      I would argue, contrary to the article's premise, that SF simply had its day, like Westerns and cop drama, and the audiences moved on. SF will have its day again, but I don't think B5 will benefit from it because I think JMS has largely moved on as well.
      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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      • #18
        I would like to add to the general consensus that the B5 fandom has definitely not died out. Of course it's only natural that something that doesn't get new movies / games / merchandise / others... every year gets less attention than "what's hot at the moment", but died out? I doubt it.

        I was on fedcon this year and for the double panel that Peter Jurassik and Bruce Boxleitner gave the auditorium was more packed than for any of the other sessions. Considering the main cast from Battlestar Galactica, Stargate SG-1 and some important Star Trek people were there, that's saying a lot.

        As for the clone wars: I enjoy star wars as much as the next guy, but I'm not up to speed about "how things are supposed to be" between the movies, but I heard that the new clone wars movie goes against Lucas' own scripts. Is that correct?
        And so it began - The Minbari point of view
        (A Babylon 5 universe story reaching from before the Second Shadow war until well afterwards)

        read it on B5 or on fanfiction.net

        Latest chapter: The Awakening of the Soul Updated August 25th, 2008

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
          I usually try to stay out of most 'X is better than Y' discussions, but I thought I'd throw in my two cent's worth here, mainly because the premise of the article is flawed. For one thing, if you begin your thesis by talking about about how B5 was completed, anything that follows in terms of follow-up projects is suspect. It's a bit like complaining how Michael Phelps didn't win any more Olympic gold medals after 2012 when in fact he had retired from the sport.

          And comparing B5 to Star Wars is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. B5 to date has always been a television-related project, while Star Wars, until recently has been feature-led. One of the many reasons that becomes significant is that for much of its life, B5 was given only lukewarm support from its studio, not to mention the fact that most of its programming was broadcast in syndication, which meant it was seen in different time slots across the country, not all of them favorable. And by the time B5 found a new home on TNT, the honeymoon was short-lived, as that cable entity decided they would rather spend the money they had allocated for Crusade on repeats of Law & Order.
          I think that what killed the chances of anything new and good in the B5 universe was TNT-Atlanta when they screwed-over Crusade, and Warner Brothers much less than lukewarm support of the B5 universe after Crusade. JMS is best at writing for the B5 universe when he's on a roll, when he's up to temperature, so to speak. Between Crusade and the Legend of the Rangers movie, we had a gap, and he had time to cool off. Also, some sets were destroyed and all of the CGI was lost. IMHO, the Legend of the Rangers movie was 99% awful (with the bright spots being Dulann, Na'Feel and Firell.). Then, we had an even longer cooling off period between The Legend ofthe Rangers movie and B5: Voices in the Dark (Direct-to-DVD), all the CGI was still lost, 99% of the sets were destroyed (even the new fancy Crusade sets built after the first Crusade production shutdown. ), 2/3rds of the wardrobe was gone (sold off), the props were gone, and Warner Brothers gave him the budget of two B5 episodes (which doesn't go as far now as it did 10 years ago, even if Warner Brothers hadn't lost, destroyed or sold most of the stuff.). The result was that the production of B5:VitD looked threadbare, a couple of walls, a couple of chairs, a hallway and some talking heads, and JMS wrote lines like this:

          Galen said "....a thousand vast war machines are warping into normal space, each of them armed with terrible engines of destruction, capable of devastation never seen before, until right now."

          1. Evidently both he and JMS forgot about the Shadow and especially Vorlon PLANETKILLERS. If the line would have been "....a thousand vast war machines are jumping out of hyperspace, each of them armed with terrible engines of destruction, capable of devastation never seen from the younger races, until right now." ...it would have been better.

          2. Warping???? It should have been "jumping out of hyperspace" not "warping". This isn't Trek or Stargate.

          Also, the depiction of that destruction in front of Galen in Sheridan looked rather static. The beams hit, but nothing much happened in reaction to them in the city. The most we got was a fan indicative of wind caused by the heat, wind in Sheridan's and Galen's face. No debris from the buildings, no fires, no explosions, nothing. We got some slightly quivering beams and wind. Not very convincing.

          The sad thing is, I don't think JMS is ever going to get the chance to get up to operating temperature writing in the B5 universe again. Warner Brothers is too timid and cheap, and they have no outlet for their sci-fi shows on TV. The marathon of a TV show is the only thing that's going to get JMS back in the B5 grove, and that's about as likely as hitting the Powerball Jackpot.
          KoshN
          Vorlon Technomage
          Last edited by KoshN; 08-27-2008, 02:11 PM.
          Mac Breck (KoshN)
          ------------------
          Warner Brothers is Lucy.
          JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
          Babylon 5 is the football.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
            Really, now. An extra six hours of Star Wars over the past decade was not enough "derail" Babylon 5.
            I think they're referring to JMS not wanting to come out with a B5 theatrical release until after all of the Star Wars movies were out.


            Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
            There were many reasons, including the machinations of TNT
            That's the BIG one.



            Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
            and WB,
            Yes, not wanting Sci-Fi/Universal to own a piece of Crusade. So, we got the awful Legend of the Rangers movie instead of a Crusade movie or series.



            Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
            and the sad untimely deaths of RB and AK,
            Those are big as well, but they came pretty long after the TNT-Atlanta and WB monkey wrenches had done a pretty thorough job of wrecking things. Now, of course, the loss of Rick, Andreas and Tim is HUGE.



            Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
            but Episodes 1 through 3 most certainly had nothing to do with it.
            They had an effect on delaying a B5 theatrical release (which still hasn't happened and almost certainly never will happen.).
            KoshN
            Vorlon Technomage
            Last edited by KoshN; 08-29-2008, 10:10 AM.
            Mac Breck (KoshN)
            ------------------
            Warner Brothers is Lucy.
            JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
            Babylon 5 is the football.

            Comment


            • #21
              I just finished reading the original article about B5 should've been bigger. I have to agree a bazillian percent. A budy of mine and I have argued this point for years. My biggest complaint has been that Babylon 5 was never properly marketed in comparison to some other shows. As we've all seen with the pathetic marketing campaign that was done with The Lost Tales.
              I know that I've said my self that the only way I found out about B5 was an article in a sci fi magazine about this new sci fi series coming and after reading the article I was intrigued and kept an eye out for it.
              Even now some of my co-workers still haven't heard of the series. A few of them strated questioning about it when I brought my B5 Club Jacket in to show a fellow B5 fan (the jacket has and will never be worn). They were asking us both about the jacket and the series. Both of us couldn't say enough about it. So I lent a couple of them a couple of DVD's and they were blown away. Then they started questioning, "Why didn't we ever hear about this series?"
              So I agree that B5 should've been far bigger than it was. Perhaps when a B5 motion picture is finally made and marketed properly, it will explode on the big screen and in the market place bigger than we first ones could imagine.

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