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If The new project is about the Telepath Wars......

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  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    Yeah, but they never even asked.
    How do you know they didn't? Every single syllable ever uttered on Babylon 5 is not shown in the series. JMS left it up to us to fill in the blanks because he only had 42 minutes of screen time each week to tell a story and he couldn't always spell everything out.

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    Originally posted by figarojonez
    Yeah, but they never even asked. I'm not saying it would have happened, but that it was never discussed. No one said,"What about that big planet that occupies most of the viewports?"

    "Well, lets ask the guy who runs it."

    Just a thought.
    With an inhospitable surface, they'd have to live with Draal and the Zathri (Zathries? Zathrases? What's the propor plural? ) The Great Machine extended Draal's life and gave him access to vast knowledge , it came with the power to create a rift in time, it had tremendous external defenses and some internal, but would it reeeaally be a good idea to put a bunch of teeps in the same space as the living heart of the Machine? Maybe refugees in temp shelters on the surface, but a colony of living weapons inside? If it were me, it would take me no time to decide "no." It would scare me half to death!

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  • figarojonez
    replied
    Since the Great Machine was to remain exclusively with Draal as its custodian for an undefined future purpose I don't think that he would have allowed any permanent colony, and that the refugees were accepted only after negotiations, with the understanding that they'd be removed ASAP.
    Yeah, but they never even asked. I'm not saying it would have happened, but that it was never discussed. No one said,"What about that big planet that occupies most of the viewports?"

    "Well, lets ask the guy who runs it."

    Just a thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    The hostile atmosphere was a plot point in several early episodes.
    The Lurker's Guide raised the question about the unbreathable atmosphere in Epsilon 3 and te refugees in the page for "Falling Toward Apotheosis."
    The most likely explanation is that Draal provide an atmosphere in a limited place, or sealed a cave portion for the purpose.

    Since the Great Machine was to remain exclusively with Draal as its custodian for an undefined future purpose I don't think that he would have allowed any permanent colony, and that the refugees were accepted only after negotiations, with the understanding that they'd be removed ASAP.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
    The Telepath Colony had been give a place on Babylon 5 so they did not need Epsilon 3 in the short term. Long term, humans cannot breath the atmophere of Epsilon 3.
    Actually, from the way they blithely sent down refugees during the Shadow War (cannot remember the specific ep right now) I am not sure the atmosphere was all that hostile.

    figarojonez, I am not sure why no one brought this up before. It is certainly an interesting idea, and "outside the box."

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by WorkerCaste
    I never had the impression they were looking for a "secret" homeworld. I was kind of thinking along the lines of what Joe DeMartino said. Unless they were looking to live a primitive life, it takes a lot of supplies and/or infrastructure to support a colony. Just getting all the skill sets needed to keep things humming is a pretty daunting task. It would take decades to build up enough infrastructure to be self sufficient. And I hadn't even considered Joe's point about warships being about the only ones that could reach them.
    I don't think there is any evidence that they WERE looking for a secret homeworld. Discussions along those lines have been simply to explore all the possibilities of how a teepworld could be established, and having it be secret would be a way of avoiding the need for expensive defenses.

    Having it accessable to only warships (or other government ships) would be a significant advantage, of course. The Teeps (and their sympathizers) wouldn't need protection from governments, because governments that engaged in wholesale murder of innocents on another planet couldn't easily do so secretly and would sufffer the approbation of other governments. The danger is from rich mundane wackos who would research a plague for telepaths or pay some mercs to do in the colonists while remaining anonymous.

    Of course, the infrastructure issue is a tough argument to counter, but the teeps may indeed prefer the safety of a simple lifestyle in secret to a modern mechanized society.

    In essence, then, the "secret homeworld" line of speculation is just that, speculation on how to resolve a problem that never was resolved in the show. There is nothing to suggest that JMS himself ever considered it.

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  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    The Telepath Colony had been give a place on Babylon 5 so they did not need Epsilon 3 in the short term. Long term, humans cannot breath the atmophere of Epsilon 3.

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  • figarojonez
    replied
    What about Epsilon

    Why didn't anyone ever considering asking Draal if the teeps could live on Epsilon? They'd have planetary defense by both B5 and Draal. Just a thought. Probably flawed, but that was the biggest question I had through that entire story arc

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  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.

    If they wanted to go somewhere, they could use the Explorer class to go there...

    /IamS
    I never had the impression they were looking for a "secret" homeworld. I was kind of thinking along the lines of what Joe DeMartino said. Unless they were looking to live a primitive life, it takes a lot of supplies and/or infrastructure to support a colony. Just getting all the skill sets needed to keep things humming is a pretty daunting task. It would take decades to build up enough infrastructure to be self sufficient. And I hadn't even considered Joe's point about warships being about the only ones that could reach them.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    I don't understand.
    Did you agree with me or not?

    My point was that the harder it is to get to the "secret Teep Homeworld" the better. Coming and going in an Explorer Class to buy groceries at the market won't tell anyone where the world is.
    Yeah, sorry, but I just had to use that classic line! I agree. You cannot keep a jump point secret - they emit the bnavigational beacon signals, of course, and so anyone travelling nearby would detect it and look it up in the nav books. If it wasn't listed or was listed as "secret Teep Homeworld" it would kinda give things away.

    Now, if they wanted to have a "regular homeworld" then JoeD's comments are applicable, but that brings me right back to the point made above, about how this is pretty much "all-lose" for the IA - protection but no real taxes (population too small). It is true that some could hire themselves out to the IA as spies, but the rest of the races wouldn't like that much at all (as evidenced by the fact that Sheridan tried to kep this work secret when he did it on a small scale on B5).

    That, I speculate, is why Sheridan mightn't be as enthusiastic for it as one would expect, given his desire to weaken the PsiCorps and his sympathies for the oppressed. It may have been possible to work something out, but again this would be another distraction for a Sheridan with lots of other things are vying for his attention.

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  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.
    They would want a jumpgate if they didn't have a Noah's Ark for Teeps and get everybody in one trip. Teeps would be making their way to this refuge for years, maybe for generations. Jump-capable ships are (a) very expensive (b) the exception, not the rule (c) mostly not designed for transporting large numbers of civilans and (d) almost exclusively the property of governments.

    You can't just lease an Explorer-class ship from EarthForce - no more than you can rent an aircraft carrier from the U.S. Navy. And just try talking Exon/Mobil into letting you take one of their deep-sea oil exploration vessels out for a pleasure cruise, or a supertanker for a year-long 'round-the-world tour. Not gonna happen, my friend.

    The Teeps would want a jumpgate for trade, communication and for to let colonists find their way to the planet. Think about it - the only kinds of ships that could seriously threaten the colony are warships - and they have jump engines. By not having a gate the Teeps would ensure that only armed enemies could reach them, and that they'd have virtually no chance of evacuating the bulk of their population should they ever be attacked. Bad plan. For immediate defense the Teeps could probably maintain a Coast Guard/Customs Patrol type of of force that would discourage casual piracy and smuggling. For more serious threats, they'd need help.

    Instead they would rely on the IA to recognize them as an independent government and therefore help defend them against encroachment by outsiders. (Presumably in exchange for either taxes, trade concessions, military basing rights or for services rendered as undercover operatives. One could imagine a small mercenary force earning the hard currency needed for the rest of the population, much as the Swiss and Scots mercenaries have at different times. There would have been enough like Byron who had paramilitary training by the corps, not to mention the ex-EarthForce types that Garibaldi would have assembled to turn Lyta's recruits into an army after she took over the movement.)

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • iamsheridan
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.
    I don't understand.
    Did you agree with me or not?

    My point was that the harder it is to get to the "secret Teep Homeworld" the better. Coming and going in an Explorer Class to buy groceries at the market won't tell anyone where the world is.

    /IamS

    Leave a comment:


  • colonyearth
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.
    Damn you, grumbler! You've told! Now I'm going to have kill you and change my name again!

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.
    There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
    replied
    NotKosh-

    Ah yes, I remember that now. Thanks. But wasn't that a result of the fact that Teeps could serve in the military, which they weren't allowed to do previously? As I said, the Teep arcs were beginning to evolve in new directions. It REALLY makes me wish that series had been given a chance, I would've loved to see what JMS had in mind for the long run.

    Leave a comment:

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