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  • #46
    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
    Or in other words: we're speculating about what the common people and teep enemies in the B5 Universe might speculate about Telepaths having their own world.
    Exactly. My post was responding to the question, basically, of "why wasn't Sheridan more sympathetic to the Teep Homeworld idea?" My answer was that he could forsee a lot of problems beyond the possibly trivial one of finding a planet in "known space."

    Remember how small the offplanet populations were for most of these races. Of the major races only the Centauri, from reading betwen the lines, had a substantial portion of their population off-world. So, it would seem that emmigration wasn't all that popular, and since the "Cyborgs" in PotS seemed to have no problems finding an unoccupied planet, there should be another reason, and I provided a possibility.

    Now, if Lyta were to find some new planet, whose location might be kept secret by the telepaths themselves, Sheridan might react differently. But that is speculation far beyond what the series supports.
    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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    • #47
      My post was responding to the question, basically, of "why wasn't Sheridan more sympathetic to the Teep Homeworld idea?" My answer was that he could forsee a lot of problems beyond the possibly trivial one of finding a planet in "known space."
      After re-reading this thread I see that I must be hung up in the old Star Trek adage "You don't have to do this, we can take your problem to the Federation" So it's now a proven fact that years of repeated viewings can alter one's brain chemistry.

      Still the Matheson character in Crusade does show that JMS was pushing the Teep arcs in new directions, slowly but surely. I'm standing firm on the fact that we can all discuss what we THINK may happen, but in the end the author decides what will or will not happen in his/her story. And I'm not saying this to back up MY speculations. I could be completely backwards, upside-down, skewed. So no predictions here. I'll enjoy WHATEVER we end up getting (when we actually end up GETTING it).
      "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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      • #48
        Just one other thought about a Teep homeworld... while there are undoubtedly a wealth of suitable plantes in the universe at large, how accesible are they? Jump gates seem to be a big thing - expensive and time consuming to build. The desirable planets near existing jump gates are probably pretty well spoken for. Finding a planet for the Teeps would mean someone giving up one they had claim to, or a long search for a new planet followed by sending the equivilent of an Explorer class ship out to build the new gate. Byron seemed to be asking for the first option - someone should give one up - since he sounded like he wanted it to happen fairly quickly.
        "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt

          In relation to JMS evolving the arcs, I see Matheson on Crusade as an example of the Teep's role in society after the fact. I haven't seen Crusade in some years now (and I'm sure to be rebuffed if wrong), but I don't seem to remember a continual, excessive amount of prejudice aimed at the character, certainly not the kind of ire we saw from the command staff on B5. In fact, Gideon seemed to appreciate Matheson's talents, which really seems significant considering the fact that Gideon definitely had secrets. He seemed more concerned with Galen uncovering his secrets than Matheson. And Matheson himself did not display the coniving underhandedness that was prevalent in the typical PsiCop, he seemed more of a noble character (at least in the episodes we were given).
          In the time of Crusade, teeps are periodically checked. There was an episode (Well of Souls/Forever?), where a teep scanner comes on board, to scan Matheson, to make sure he hasn't violated teep regulations with unauthorized scans. Those regulations/restrictions/oversight were one of the fallouts of the teep war.
          "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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          • #50
            Originally posted by WorkerCaste
            Finding a planet for the Teeps would mean someone giving up one they had claim to, or a long search for a new planet followed by sending the equivilent of an Explorer class ship out to build the new gate.
            But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.

            If they wanted to go somewhere, they could use the Explorer class to go there...

            /IamS
            Interstellar Alliance - Sweden's largest Babylon 5-club
            http://www.babcon.org/

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            • #51
              NotKosh-

              Ah yes, I remember that now. Thanks. But wasn't that a result of the fact that Teeps could serve in the military, which they weren't allowed to do previously? As I said, the Teep arcs were beginning to evolve in new directions. It REALLY makes me wish that series had been given a chance, I would've loved to see what JMS had in mind for the long run.
              "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by iamsheridan
                But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.
                There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.
                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by grumbler
                  There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.
                  Damn you, grumbler! You've told! Now I'm going to have kill you and change my name again!
                  Anthony Flessas
                  Writer/Producer/Director,
                  SP Pictures


                  I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by grumbler
                    There doesn't seem to be any point belonging to a secret Teep Homeworld if you tell everyone about it.
                    I don't understand.
                    Did you agree with me or not?

                    My point was that the harder it is to get to the "secret Teep Homeworld" the better. Coming and going in an Explorer Class to buy groceries at the market won't tell anyone where the world is.

                    /IamS
                    Interstellar Alliance - Sweden's largest Babylon 5-club
                    http://www.babcon.org/

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.
                      They would want a jumpgate if they didn't have a Noah's Ark for Teeps and get everybody in one trip. Teeps would be making their way to this refuge for years, maybe for generations. Jump-capable ships are (a) very expensive (b) the exception, not the rule (c) mostly not designed for transporting large numbers of civilans and (d) almost exclusively the property of governments.

                      You can't just lease an Explorer-class ship from EarthForce - no more than you can rent an aircraft carrier from the U.S. Navy. And just try talking Exon/Mobil into letting you take one of their deep-sea oil exploration vessels out for a pleasure cruise, or a supertanker for a year-long 'round-the-world tour. Not gonna happen, my friend.

                      The Teeps would want a jumpgate for trade, communication and for to let colonists find their way to the planet. Think about it - the only kinds of ships that could seriously threaten the colony are warships - and they have jump engines. By not having a gate the Teeps would ensure that only armed enemies could reach them, and that they'd have virtually no chance of evacuating the bulk of their population should they ever be attacked. Bad plan. For immediate defense the Teeps could probably maintain a Coast Guard/Customs Patrol type of of force that would discourage casual piracy and smuggling. For more serious threats, they'd need help.

                      Instead they would rely on the IA to recognize them as an independent government and therefore help defend them against encroachment by outsiders. (Presumably in exchange for either taxes, trade concessions, military basing rights or for services rendered as undercover operatives. One could imagine a small mercenary force earning the hard currency needed for the rest of the population, much as the Swiss and Scots mercenaries have at different times. There would have been enough like Byron who had paramilitary training by the corps, not to mention the ex-EarthForce types that Garibaldi would have assembled to turn Lyta's recruits into an army after she took over the movement.)

                      Regards,

                      Joe
                      Joseph DeMartino
                      Sigh Corps
                      Pat Tallman Division

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by iamsheridan
                        I don't understand.
                        Did you agree with me or not?

                        My point was that the harder it is to get to the "secret Teep Homeworld" the better. Coming and going in an Explorer Class to buy groceries at the market won't tell anyone where the world is.
                        Yeah, sorry, but I just had to use that classic line! I agree. You cannot keep a jump point secret - they emit the bnavigational beacon signals, of course, and so anyone travelling nearby would detect it and look it up in the nav books. If it wasn't listed or was listed as "secret Teep Homeworld" it would kinda give things away.

                        Now, if they wanted to have a "regular homeworld" then JoeD's comments are applicable, but that brings me right back to the point made above, about how this is pretty much "all-lose" for the IA - protection but no real taxes (population too small). It is true that some could hire themselves out to the IA as spies, but the rest of the races wouldn't like that much at all (as evidenced by the fact that Sheridan tried to kep this work secret when he did it on a small scale on B5).

                        That, I speculate, is why Sheridan mightn't be as enthusiastic for it as one would expect, given his desire to weaken the PsiCorps and his sympathies for the oppressed. It may have been possible to work something out, but again this would be another distraction for a Sheridan with lots of other things are vying for his attention.
                        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by iamsheridan
                          But they wouldn't WANT a jumpgate, would they? They only wanted to live in peace and quiet.

                          If they wanted to go somewhere, they could use the Explorer class to go there...

                          /IamS
                          I never had the impression they were looking for a "secret" homeworld. I was kind of thinking along the lines of what Joe DeMartino said. Unless they were looking to live a primitive life, it takes a lot of supplies and/or infrastructure to support a colony. Just getting all the skill sets needed to keep things humming is a pretty daunting task. It would take decades to build up enough infrastructure to be self sufficient. And I hadn't even considered Joe's point about warships being about the only ones that could reach them.
                          "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                          • #58
                            What about Epsilon

                            Why didn't anyone ever considering asking Draal if the teeps could live on Epsilon? They'd have planetary defense by both B5 and Draal. Just a thought. Probably flawed, but that was the biggest question I had through that entire story arc

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                            • #59
                              The Telepath Colony had been give a place on Babylon 5 so they did not need Epsilon 3 in the short term. Long term, humans cannot breath the atmophere of Epsilon 3.
                              Andrew Swallow

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                                I never had the impression they were looking for a "secret" homeworld. I was kind of thinking along the lines of what Joe DeMartino said. Unless they were looking to live a primitive life, it takes a lot of supplies and/or infrastructure to support a colony. Just getting all the skill sets needed to keep things humming is a pretty daunting task. It would take decades to build up enough infrastructure to be self sufficient. And I hadn't even considered Joe's point about warships being about the only ones that could reach them.
                                I don't think there is any evidence that they WERE looking for a secret homeworld. Discussions along those lines have been simply to explore all the possibilities of how a teepworld could be established, and having it be secret would be a way of avoiding the need for expensive defenses.

                                Having it accessable to only warships (or other government ships) would be a significant advantage, of course. The Teeps (and their sympathizers) wouldn't need protection from governments, because governments that engaged in wholesale murder of innocents on another planet couldn't easily do so secretly and would sufffer the approbation of other governments. The danger is from rich mundane wackos who would research a plague for telepaths or pay some mercs to do in the colonists while remaining anonymous.

                                Of course, the infrastructure issue is a tough argument to counter, but the teeps may indeed prefer the safety of a simple lifestyle in secret to a modern mechanized society.

                                In essence, then, the "secret homeworld" line of speculation is just that, speculation on how to resolve a problem that never was resolved in the show. There is nothing to suggest that JMS himself ever considered it.
                                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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