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If The new project is about the Telepath Wars......

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    "Give us our own world."

    Oh sure, there ya go. Here is a whole planet, By. Anything else? How about a moon or two to go with it? For extra, we'll throw in an atmosphere. Wait...extra...you're not paying...heck, the air is free.

    Shaw, right.
    Actually, we saw in "Patterns of the Soul" that another group of "homo superiors" of a sort found rather trivially such a planet, and colonized it on the cheap.

    However, as someone pointed out on B5TV.com when I noted this, a teep homeworld would require much more than what the biologically altered humans needed in "Patterns of the Soul" - they needed protection from the other humans. Without some sort of patrol, some future Edgars would just hire some unemployed planet-busters and "make sure" that the teeps wouldn't threaten the mundanes.

    The planet wasn't the problem - the safety of the teeps once concentrated was, IMO. This is something Sheridan would think of.

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  • AmyG
    replied
    well this telepaths vs. mundanes struggle seems pretty similar to me. and frankly, it is surprising that a similar battle has not taken place amongst the Centauri or Minbari who also have telepaths amongst them.
    In "Phoenix Rising," Bester is talking to Captain Lochley (after being called in to deal with the telepath problem) and says:

    "Our job is to protect normals from rogue telepaths. Perhaps now you'll understand why we're necessary. Every race to develop telepaths has had to find some way to control them: through laws, religion, drugs, or extermination. We may not be pretty....but we're a hell of a lot better than the alternatives."

    The implication being that the other races are indeed controlling their telepaths, albeit through more seemingly subtle methods. We know that Minbari telepaths think of it as a privilege to live a life of service, and all of their needs are provided for by Minbari society. There's probably some religious indoctrination there as well, with Valen making some pronouncement about how the telepaths are to use their gifts. With the Centauri, we know that at least some of their telepaths are used in the royal court. And the others are subject to less stringent rules than Human telepaths, so it's probably fairly easy for them to make a good buck in a society such as that one, rife with political intrigue and backstabbing. Perhaps the promise of such an easy life (good money, life in the royal court) is enough to keep their issues in check.

    One thing I'm not sure of is how long Earth has had telepaths as compared to the other races. We know that telepaths have been documented on Earth for a little over a hundred years, but how long have the Centauri had them? The Minbari? We know that the Narns had them a _thousand_ years ago, so maybe the problems with Human telepaths and the Psi Corp are due to us still being kind of new in the telepathy game.

    Aisling

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Somewhere there may be a comment of JMS about the Centauri and Minbari telepaths... can't find the former, but about the Minbari:
    http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-8866 (1994)
    From cradle to grave, the Minbari are taught that there is no greater goal, no nobler thing than to serve. They are raised to be totally self-sacrificing. The only exception is when someone in the religious caste believes he or she has received a calling, which if sincerely felt cannot be contravened (since usually this too involves serving). So for a Minbari telepath, this is their means by which they may serve, and they are given great respect. It never even occurs to them to do otherwise.
    How the Centauri are "controlled" I'm not sure, their names are on a list, but they may not be under as many restrictions as human teeps under the Psi Corps. Remember "Passing through Gethsemane" where a Centauri teep implanted the images in Brother Edward's mind.

    Figaro:
    It's completely impossible that the Centauri Prime abduction of David Sheridan through the keeper forms part of the same story as the Telepath War.

    David's keeper is given to him in his 16th Birthday... at the end of Season 5 (2262) he is in Delenn's womb, so that would happen on 2278-79.

    By the events on Crusade (starting on 2267) the Telepath War had passed... about two years before.

    You can check dates in the following site if you don't remember them:
    http://www.chronology.org/b-five/

    Is not official but at least is close to correct.

    I agree with you that a Telepath War would be a three way battle, maybe even four way if there is a radical faction of "mundanes" to contrast with Lyta's group.

    Leave a comment:


  • figarojonez
    replied
    During Season 4 the Centauri teeps lost.

    When did this happen specifically. I don't remember.

    Leave a comment:


  • figarojonez
    replied
    My too sense

    My take:

    Because season five wasn't supposed to happen until TNT picked it up(about 2 weeks before they finished filming season 4, I believe. I'm probably way off), Most of the writing for S5 and the last three episodes for S4 were a little off. Go back and watch the episodes leading up to "Intersections in Real Time,"And then watch the three episodes aftwerwards. I actually stopped watching the show after the first ep of S5 didn't seem to improve that much(On a side note, I just picked up S5 on dvd and watched all of it. Wish I hadn't stopped; once it found it's footing it got much, much better). My point is that if the Teep storyline felt off, that was probably one of the big reasons.

    Byron as he was wasn't a problem for me. Yes, he was haughty, but come on, he was british. The whole point was that even though he had an ego and considered himself their leader, in the end most of his "follwers" betrayed what he wanted(peace, waiting for a planet of their own) by leaving when he wanted to stay in brown sector.

    My big problm with the teep colony's hair was they all looked like guys from hair metal bands. I kept expecting Byron to burst into "Pour Some Sugar on Me."

    As for the Teep planet I found myself wondering the whole time why they did the stupidest thing possible. "We want a planet so instead of going before the IA and asking politely, we'll do the one thing guarenteed to piss of EVERYBODY." On a side note, why didn't Sheridan ever considering asking Drall if they could use Epsilon. It seemed the plainest thing in the world, but what do I know?

    And if they do a movie, it has to include the David Sheridan plot. My guess would be that the Teep war and the keeper on David coincide, but maybe I'm wrong. If it is about the Teep war, my guess is going to be a three-way battle with the Psi-corp vs. Lita's group vs. Mundanes. I can just see John Sheridan running to help Earth out just as he recieves the message that his son has been taking by the Centauri, and having to choose which battle he goes to face, thus explaining his pressence on Centauri Prime and Delenn saying "David is fine."

    Just my take on the whole thing

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    Originally posted by Lieutenant Keffer
    well this telepaths vs. mundanes struggle seems pretty similar to me. and frankly, it is surprising that a similar battle has not taken place amongst the Centauri or Minbari who also have telepaths amongst them.
    During Season 4 the Centauri teeps lost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lieutenant Keffer
    replied
    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
    But are Telepaths homo superior?
    i think the answer to that would be YES.

    and while it may have been orchestrated by the Vorlons, it still follows along the lines of natural selection. and you do indeed have Homo Sapiens vs. Homo Superior in a similar plane as Cro Magnon vs. Neanderthal.

    remember that one ep where Dr. Franklin discovers that one race on a planet had exterminated the other virtually equally developed race?

    well this telepaths vs. mundanes struggle seems pretty similar to me. and frankly, it is surprising that a similar battle has not taken place amongst the Centauri or Minbari who also have telepaths amongst them.

    but even though i would consider telepaths to be "superior", that does not necessarily give them the upper hand because they are inferior when it comes to numbers by a pretty large margin. and it also stands to reason that the Alliance would come to the aid of the mundanes if the telepaths ever made a bid to take over Earth.

    a lot of speculation i know.

    but that is what the board is here for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    Oh sure, there ya go. Here is a whole planet
    Yeah, it isn't like habitable planets would be rare or valuable or anything. I'll be there are just thousands of worlds with the right atmosphere, gravity, temperature range and amount of water to support the kind of humanoid races who find B5 comfy that nobody's ever colonized. Byron should have had his choice of them, at no charge.

    Regards,

    Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    That's what I was trying to figure out...was he meant to be annoying or did JMS intend for us to actually sympathize with him? Besides looking like Fabio and talking in those annoyingly romantic words (I loved it when Lyta got cynical at first) did we really feel his pain?

    "Give us our own world."

    Oh sure, there ya go. Here is a whole planet, By. Anything else? How about a moon or two to go with it? For extra, we'll throw in an atmosphere. Wait...extra...you're not paying...heck, the air is free.

    Shaw, right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Actually I am entirely sure that Byron was supposed to be likable and charismatic... to his followers, at least.

    Getting a world of your own is a big deal: an alien world? Almost no alien would accept them.
    An Earth Colony? As if the existing settlers would like to leave just because some big-wig politician decided their world belonged to those teeps.
    An empty world? If they had one in mind they sure didn't use that effectively in their negotiations.
    And then there was that whole stupid blackmail attempt...

    Even without that, ellaborating more on Joe DeM's point of telepaths being distrusted by humans: would humans be happy having so-called (and self-called) "homo superior" telepaths unsupervised in a world of their own where who knows when and where they might decide to take over the "mundanes" and from where they could go out and infiltrate normals undetected?
    I suspect that a leader like Sheridan would have considered something on those lines when taking a decision.

    Byron and his followers were too idealistic: getting a world of their own wouldn't have solved the root problem they wanted to escape from, and it wasn't as easy as they wanted it to be.
    In that sense Byron wasn't a good leader.
    But what he was was a tragic figure, that would be a rallying point for a faction of the telepaths.

    And I'm almost sure such a faction will play a role in the Telepath War.

    My only gripe with the Telepath Colony arc was that it was slow, too little happened on those eps, other than setting up the crisis.
    Had the arc of the Telepaths and Centauri Prime/Londo been better balanced and intermeshed it could have been better.

    But then, speaking of what ifs, the Telepath Colony story originally would have been set-up more slowly, starting on Season 4, possibly as B-stories.
    It's on record that Season four would have ended with "Intersections in Real Time," since PTEN was going belly-up and a fifth season was unlikely the whole Teep background story was removed, only when TNT picked up B5 for a fifth season that story could be told.
    A very circumstancial thing, but that makes it more forgivable for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • colonyearth
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    Just because I can't quite leave this alone yet <g>....

    All of us here think that JMS is a pretty good writer, yes? Otherwise, why would we be here, if we weren't huge fans of the show, right? So, having established that JMS is a good writer, and adding to that the fact that 99% of Babylon 5 fans find Byron extremely annoying...I think you pretty much have to come to the conclusion that Byron was in fact _written_ to be annoying. :-)

    Just my two cents.

    Aisling
    Hey, Aisling...

    I just found two cents...you want 'em back?

    (Joking...I agree with you )

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    Just because I can't quite leave this alone yet <g>....

    All of us here think that JMS is a pretty good writer, yes? Otherwise, why would we be here, if we weren't huge fans of the show, right? So, having established that JMS is a good writer, and adding to that the fact that 99% of Babylon 5 fans find Byron extremely annoying...I think you pretty much have to come to the conclusion that Byron was in fact _written_ to be annoying. :-)

    Just my two cents.

    Aisling

    Leave a comment:


  • CRONAN
    replied
    Cronan, I think we all assume that since "he was annoying" is obviously a statement of opinion
    --------------------------------------------------

    Point taken. Rather not get into the specifics here.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by CRONAN
    He was annoying - and he was meant to be.
    -------------------------------------------

    Lets seperate fact and opinion here. Its one thing to say you think hes an annoying character, quite another to *assume* he was ''meant'' one way or another. Since the only person that can possibly confirm/refute this would be jms, again, if you're stating this as a fact, BACK IT UP. What can you base this on, other than you're own - subjective - point of view?
    Cronan, I think we all assume that since "he was annoying" is obviously a statement of opinion, its correlary "and he was meant to be" is a statement of opinion as well. JoeD didn't say "JMS said that he was meant to be annoying." Now, if you want to ask "what evidence do you have that he was meant to be annoting" you are asking an answerable question. Asking "what can you base this on, other than you're own - subjective - point of view" isn't really answerable, since "what can you" implies a challenge to ability, not opinion.

    So, feel free to challenge statements but try to word it so it isn't interpretable as a challenge to the poster. It helps maintain a collegial board atmosphere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
    replied
    Bester wasn't a pompous, self-centered, holier-than-thou putz. He was an evil bastard, but so nakedly an evil bastard (albeit one who cared on some level about "his" teeps) that he enjoyed being what he was. And we enjoy watching him. Byron was a self-concious sufferer and martyr like the worst of the 19th century Romantics (who he managed to sound like even when he wasn't quoting them.) He was annoying - and he was meant to be. Two unlikeable characters, but unlikeable in different ways. Bester is in the tradition of the great villians who are so cool in their own way that we have to like and even admire them on some level, if only for their skill at being what they are. (Think Dr. Doom, Magneto, Darth Vader) Byron was the opposite, so self-conciously "doing pennance for his sin" that he sucks all the fun out of any room he enters
    OK...not really sure why this point was re-iterated...thought I said that? And if you read the Psi-Corps novels (Bester Ascendant to be specific), one gets to see Bester from a completely different perspective. I found myself actually sympathizing with the character! That is, until I watched one of his episodes. Nevertheless, my view of the character was never quite the same after reading the novel.

    Leave a comment:

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