If The new project is about the Telepath Wars......

[JackBauer]

I for one would like to pray that if this is the case then it would be a bit better than what was shown in season 5 of the telepath arc. I watched it a while back and didnt really care for it back then...BUT when i rewatched the series i found several things i liked better the second time around. Sinclair kinda grew on me. Seaon 1 wasnt as bad as a lot of people say, and Ivonava isnt that great of an actress. But suffice to say after watching season 5 that the telepath ordeal was as bad a i remember it to be. I attribute a lot of this to the Byron actor and his material. Hes given an incredible amount of screen time but for the most part doesnt do a heck of a lot. He uses the same phrases over again and is just an all around poor actor. The telepath ordeal in season 5 was very boring and long to watch and i hope that the upcoming project doesnt reflect what was presented to us in season 5.

[grumbler]

remember that the whole purpose of the telepath crisis in Season 5 was to make everyone desperate enough that a teep civil war was plausable. In particular, it was to set up Lyta as an avenger who would trigger that war.

So, there may be some flashbacks in a Teepwar movie to help set up the motivations of Lyta, but what happened on B5 was a precurser, not the war.

[bulletproofmonk]

I found that I didn't care much for so-called "telepath episodes" throughout the series ("oh, it's another 'telepath episode'") until I read the telepath trilogy. These books (mainly the first two) really put the struggle between telepaths and normals into perspective, making all of those "telepath episodes", and Season 5, have much more meaning.

And, of course, the whole Byron thing was really important to push Lyta's character along:

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"I agree the coldness was disturbing, but I feel this reveals the deep emotion she feels at Byron's death and her consequent ruthless determination to achieve his goals."

This was the point I was going for with people who were saying that the Byron thing was totally extraneous. To get Lyta to this point as a character -- remembering her "I'll sue" tirade as the last time she even sorta kinda got mad -- she would *have* to go through the fire, and lose something that meant enough to push her to this point. So you had to let the relationship with Byron go full term, follow it over time, and see what it meant to her to justify and motivate what happens to and with her in the last part of the season.

-quote from jms

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/105.html

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[B5_Obsessed]

Sinclair and telepaths

I'm with you. When viewing the Season 1 DVDs, I found I also liked Sinclair a lot more than I remembered. He wasn't perfect, but I also believe he could've improved with time just like Jerry Doyle and Bruce Boxleitner did. You can chart the improvement of actors and actresses with time. On a related note, it took Joline Blalock about three years but she's finally got her character of T'Pol down. Her first two years were just AWFUL!

I also hoped that without all the enhanced expectations, I would like the telepath arc better the second time. I did not.
Then when I got the Season 5 DVD set, I had a problem I hadn't experienced before- I was looking for an episode I wanted to watch (without jumping to Sleeping in Light).

JMS has stated that he wanted to show Byron and his followers as a cult. In exploring this avenue he made Byron at times unlikeable which, although it happens in real life, is dramatically difficult. Lyta gets indoctrinated (and would have even if Claudia had stayed) but the audience does not. The audience just wants him to shut up, stop whining, and get a haircut. So, while it's important to see how Lyta got to where she ended up, the audience simply can not identify with her.

[JackBauer]

I know the arc in season 5 wasnt the telepath war. You cant very well have a war between some station personel and a few hobos living in brown sector. But i think the best way to sum up Byron is "dry". I dont think its all his character that makes him this way as it is him personally. I find the scenes just slow and prodding that make me want to fast forward. I dont find him to be a very convincing marytr, and i believe that was the image that JMS tried to convery to us were these ultra desperate people led by this, do at all costs to himself, leader.

Now as for the books, i dont know which of the B5 books are cannon books but if you need a miniseries of books to make your tv show make some sense i dunno.

But not to sound all negative i do respect the fact that JMS tried to pull something together here. We all know the PTen switch over to TNT with season 5 being really a last minute thing. SO in that retrospect, even though the telepath arc was brutal i give mad props to JMS for trying.

[AmyG]

You say that you realize that the telepath arc in season 5 isn't the same as the telepath war, but your complaints make it sound as if that's exactly what you're expecting a Teep War movie to be like. It won't. As has been pointed out previously on this thread, Byron and his followers were outsiders, a cult - they were rogues, on the run from Psi Corp, and most telepaths we've seen in the series were NOT like them. Since a Teep War will involve _most_ of the telepaths of Earth, and not just the disaffected outsiders, it's not likely we're going to have a Teep War involving black-garbed, sullen, shiny-haired depressed telepaths yelling "Free Byron!" all over the place.

So, any war between the teeps and the mundanes, besides being on a much larger scale, is not going to be about remotely _anything_ that the fifth season teep crisis was about. Byron's teeps wanted a homeworld of their own, to be left alone by Psi Corp and the rest of humanity, and to be able to use their powers openly among themselves. The crisis between Earth's _entire_ teep community and Earth's _entire_ mundane community is going to be about suspicion, jealousy/envy, and fear (basically a fear of difference, but some will hold out the same suspicions that Edgars did; that we are two sentient species developing simultaneously and that one must achieve preeminence evolutionarily and thus eventually wipe the other species out).

As for Robin Atkin Downe's performance, while I hated (hated! hated!) Byron, I don't have a problem with his acting ability. I think he's quite good - why else would we all hate Byron so much? He wasn't _supposed_ to be likeable to _us_.

Now as for the books, i dont know which of the B5 books are cannon books but if you need a miniseries of books to make your tv show make some sense i dunno.

A book being "canon" (not "cannon") doesn't mean it is _required_ reading in order to understand the series; it just means that it is a legitimate piece of the story, and that the events that take place in the book are considered to be 'official' events as far as the B5 universe is concerned. You absolutely do _not_ have to have read _any_ of the considered-canon books (the three trilogies; "To Dream in the City of Sorrows"; and most of "The Shadow Within") to understand what's going on in the series.

Aisling

[Joseph DeMartino]

So, any war between the teeps and the mundanes, besides being on a much larger scale, is not going to be about remotely _anything_ that the fifth season teep crisis was about.

Er, the particular Telepath War that JMS has been foreshadowing all these years will have a great deal to do with the events of S5 and nothing whatever to do with a struggle between Teeps and Mundanes. The Teep War of 2254/65 is Lyta's rebellion against Psi Corps, with an army of rogue teeps armed, trained and funded through the good offices of Michael Garibaldi.

Even so, the story of the war won't be anything like the Teep arc of S5 because Lyta is no Byron and her organization - while still seeking a homeworld for Teeps and the ability to for them to live in mainstream society without being segregated inside the Corps - is not a bunch of Kumbabya-singing latter-day hippies. She is an armed revolutionary who launches a full-scale war against the Psi Corps. (A fight she wins given the fact the the Corps, the pins and the gloves are gone by the time Lt. Matheson is serving in EarthForce in Crusade)

That some kind of Teep/Mundane crisis may be building in some undefined future, there are no indications that it happens before Sheridan's departure in 2281, so it can't be the one Delenn speaks of among the crises of "the next twenty years".

Regards,

Joe

P.S.

I agree that there was nothing wrong with Downes's performance. He is a fine actor who gave a convincing portrayal of a pompous, annoying character we were meant to hate. Geez, does everyone think every movie ever made about Hitler had a bad script and lousy acting, and if they'd both been better we'd've liked the guy? Man, I hope not.

J.D.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
Er, the particular Telepath War that JMS has been foreshadowing all these years will have a great deal to do with the events of S5 and nothing whatever to do with a struggle between Teeps and Mundanes. The Teep War of 2254/65 is Lyta's rebellion against Psi Corps, with an army of rogue teeps armed, trained and funded through the good offices of Michael Garibaldi.

I would agree that this is how it will start, but I know of nothing that indicates that the teep-mundane crisis forshadowed in Rising Star will have nothing to do with the Teep War. JMS doesn't usually throw out things like that for no reason. I can imagine the crisis spiralling out of control and Bester trying to unite the teeps with a "second front" against the "mundanes"... unless you have actual evidence that JMS has said somewhere that the events of 2264/64 had "nothing whatever to do with a struggle between Teeps and Mundanes."

[CRONAN]

I agree that there was nothing wrong with Downes's performance. He is a fine actor who gave a convincing portrayal of a pompous, annoying character we were meant to hate. Geez, does everyone think every movie ever made about Hitler had a bad script and lousy acting, and if they'd both been better we'd've liked the guy? Man, I hope not.
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Whaaaat!? Why is everyone here a Byron-hater? From the episodes I saw in S5, he seemed to be a great and inspiring leader among the telepaths, certainly much more interesting than the guy they had in season 2. Yes he did get the better of some of the B5 characters from time to time. As with Garibaldi, I can't say I blame him (oh hello mute, sorry to interrupt your deep silence, but i need to convince your leader to order you to spy on other people for me).

I think he brought a refreshing perspective to the show.

No, he didn't come from the same background as the others (Shadow war, Civil war, etc.) Nor was his character ever meant for all that. He had his own crusade to lead, and by God if that wasn't what he did (moment of silence please).

[JackBauer]

"You say that you realize that the telepath arc in season 5 isn't the same as the telepath war, but your complaints make it sound as if that's exactly what you're expecting a Teep War movie to be like."

What the??

Did you even read my post??

THis is what im hoping WILL NOT happen.

"I think he's quite good - why else would we all hate Byron so much? He wasn't _supposed_ to be likeable to _us_."

We hate Byron because hes dull and boring, not because his character is hateable. In fact, we as an audience are supposed to feel sympathtic to him and his cause. Even if he is a little pompus as an audience we are suppose to understand the motives behind his actions. Its almost like the character that Ed Harris played in The Rock. Hes an antagonist to the good guys but for all the right reasons.

[CRONAN]

He wasn't supposed to be ''likeable''? And what do you base this on, other than your own opinion? Please show me the jms post that makes this point clear...

[Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt]

Re: Byron, I agree with the negatives. But for me, it had nothing to do with the fact that the character was written as "unlikeable". Bester was not written as particularly likeable, but Koenig played him so deliciously evil that I couldn't help but love the character. Plus, it's great to see WK actually get a part he can sink his teeth into. Not so with Byron (or Atkins-Downs), there was something about the character that just bothers me. I suppose if JMS intended that for the character, he succeded. But once again, all a matter of personal tastes.

But I never could understand why everyone came completely unglued when the Teeps asked for a world of their own. Even after watching S5 again, I don't understand this reaction. Seems like a perfectly reasonable request...one that has been repeated over and over again throughout history. A group that has been persecuted and vilified attempts to strike out on their own...now where have I heard this theme before?

[Kevin]

It's not what they asked so much that got everyone upset... it's how they asked for it.

Plus the fact that violence proceeded almost immedietly afterwards, which is what really ruined their chances.

[Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt]

Don't quite follow you there Kevin...can you elaborate?

I still don't think the request was that unreasonable. And also, why did Sheridan literally start screaming at them when they made the request? To me, that was the catalyst for all the violence. I would think that -- at the least -- Sheridan would have said something to the effect that their request would be given some kind of hearing within the Interstellar Alliance. Yet, *he* curtly made the decision himself then and there, with no other explanation other than "this is not the time" (loudly). I'm still finding this point difficult, especially since no one wanted the Teeps there in the first place...seems like they would've *wanted* to get the Teeps off the station.

[colonyearth]

Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
Don't quite follow you there Kevin...can you elaborate?

I still don't think the request was that unreasonable. And also, why did Sheridan literally start screaming at them when they made the request? To me, that was the catalyst for all the violence. I would think that -- at the least -- Sheridan would have said something to the effect that their request would be given some kind of hearing within the Interstellar Alliance. Yet, *he* curtly made the decision himself then and there, with no other explanation other than "this is not the time" (loudly). I'm still finding this point difficult, especially since no one wanted the Teeps there in the first place...seems like they would've *wanted* to get the Teeps off the station.

I think there are many, many layers of reasons and events that conspired to cause Byron and his followers not to get a world of their own. As to Sheridan's reaction...again, I think there were layers of reasons for his reaction, some we may still not know (pure JMS).

As for Atkins-Downes's performance. He is actually a good actor. I will defend him here and remind people of my reaction to people's attack on Christianson and Portman after SW:AotC came out; don't blame the actor, it's not always the actor's fault.

In the case of AotC, it was clearly Lucas' fault, especially since I've seen Christianson and Portman in other roles where they acted their asses off.

In the case of Downes, I will refer everyone to my posts about the potential director of TMoS and why it shouldn't be one of the series' directors. This is one reason, right here. The Byron arc, IMO, was very poorly directed. As for the long hair, I think that was a choice in order to give them a more 60's cult, hippie look. Kinda creepy and that was partly what JMS was going for.

I can clearly see where JMS was trying to go Byron, and while we weren't supposed to love Byron like we did the main cast, we were supposed to sympathize with him and his cause.

Did the whole Byron arc work as well as it should've and could've? No. Was it as bad as people make it out to be? No. Was it important to the overall arc of the B5 universe? Yes. It was a sparking point that sets off a chain of events that changes the universe forever...a recurring theme in B5.

Take it for what it was, accept that the events are important and the knowledge they impart to you as a fan in regards to the arc (of the B5 universe, of Lyta, of the Teeps), and place it in that context of turning point. While turning points are not always remembered correctly throughout history, if they're remembered at all, they do still occur and are important to change.

Take it for its worth in B5 and move on. TMoS will by no means be like that, so rest assured. Expect big, poignant, powerful, sweeping, moving, exciting and, like B5, life altering.

At least, that's my prediction.

CE