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  • ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN
    replied
    Hi. I personally think the John Sheridan character fit in better on Babylon 5 than Sinclair. And the whole Sinclair as Valen thing wouldn't of worked if he hadn't of left the station and went to Minbar. This is where he learned the language and the ways of the Minbari that prepared him for going back in time to defeat the shadows. And since he already new about the Grey Counsel from th future, it was only natual that he was the one who set things in motion in the past.

    Sheridan and Delenn seemed like an effortless connection and both Bruce and Mira played the characters beautifully.

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    Originally posted by Brother Michael View Post
    What did you think of the Centauri attacking Earth story in the Lost Tales dvd? Did that work for you?
    I liked it but I think it was supposed to lead in to more stories as well so I was hoping for those. Joe cryptically referred to Galen and time travel once implying there was more story coming on this one (and I asked him about it but he didn't answer it in the movie book.)

    Originally posted by Triple F View Post
    wasn’t the end of the original 5 year story arc going to be Sinclair and Delenn fleeing a destroyed Babylon 5 in order to take up residence on Centauri Prime.
    Hm that would've been interesting if they lived on Centauri Prime. No, in that version they flee a destroyed Babylon 5 (with Garibaldi as well) and then go and pick up Babylon 4. Sinclair eventually lives on his own planet somewhere.

    Originally posted by Triple F View Post
    That was the meaning of the vision seen in the coming of Shadows (season 1) with the shuttle leaving the station just as it blows up and the twist was it wasn’t the shadows but the Minbari warrior cast that was attacking. The suggested follow-up series was pencilled in as Babylon prime or something like that.
    Yep. "Signs and Portents" is the episode with the vision.

    Originally posted by Triple F View Post
    So it was the ‘new' 4 or 4 1/2 year story arc which was aiming at the fall of centauri prime. As I said, I’m basing that on what’s been said on here from those that have the script books – though may have misunderstood.
    The Fall of Centauri Prime is set up as early as "Midnight on the Firing Line" when G'Kar tells Londo that one day the Narn's teeth will be at his throat. I don't have the script book in front of me, but in the commentary for the fifth season episode he says something along the lines of "Here we see the reason for the whole five-year arc. You cannot create the sense of dread felt here in a single hour-long episode. It has to be built up to." A good way to think of the story changes is like this -> major character arcs planned from the beginning were Sinclair & Delenn; Londo & G'Kar; Garibaldi. The Londo, G'Kar, and Garibaldi stories pretty much track exactly as planned (although Londo was also going to claim Babylon 5 as part of the Centauri Republic in the final season). Delenn's story ends early with the civil war coming to a close in season 4, so there's no way for the Minbari to come and destroy Babylon 5, and Sinclair's story gets split off partially into Sheridan (with the whole child with Delenn bit) which still goes as planned and the new bit was with Sinclair going back in time with Babylon 4 and becoming Valen instead of going forward in time.

    Originally posted by Triple F View Post
    Does anyone know when it was that jms made those fundamental changes to the story. I'm guessing the end of season 1, due to Michael O'Hare being shown the door.
    I think a better way to think of it is that his mind was changing and trying to improve the story constantly. Certainly Michael's departure affected the story, but that likely wasn't the only major change along the way.
    Last edited by JoeD80; 08-24-2009, 01:57 PM.

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  • Triple F
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
    jms points to "The Fall of Centauri Prime" as the episode the five-year arc was rolling towards in both commentary on the DVD and in the script book.
    I haven’t read any of the script books but (and admit I might have picked up things very wrong). But wasn’t the end of the original 5 year story arc going to be Sinclair and Delenn fleeing a destroyed Babylon 5 in order to take up residence on Centauri Prime.

    That was the meaning of the vision seen in the coming of Shadows (season 1) with the shuttle leaving the station just as it blows up and the twist was it wasn’t the shadows but the Minbari warrior cast that was attacking. The suggested follow-up series was pencilled in as Babylon prime or something like that.

    So it was the ‘new' 4 or 4 1/2 year story arc which was aiming at the fall of centauri prime. As I said, I’m basing that on what’s been said on here from those that have the script books – though may have misunderstood.

    Does anyone know when it was that jms made those fundamental changes to the story. I'm guessing the end of season 1, due to Michael O'Hare being shown the door.
    Last edited by Triple F; 08-22-2009, 04:17 AM.

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  • Brother Michael
    replied
    Interesting to hear your thoughts, JoeD.

    What did you think of the Centauri attacking Earth story in the Lost Tales dvd? Did that work for you?

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    Originally posted by Brother Michael View Post
    The idea of introducing yet another malefactor for the Interstellar Alliance (although the enigmatic 'dark ones' alien species - possibly the Thirdspace aliens(??) did have a certain appeal) lacked strength and credibility.,
    Originally posted by Brother Michael View Post
    Adding further 'super-villain' aliens/First Ones unnecessarily detracts from the Shadows as being the supreme bad guys of the B5 universe that they are!!
    No not Thirdspace aliens; and they weren't actually more powerful than the Shadows; the Hand were just another alien species who *claimed* to be powerful but weren't really -- and in the series it would be revealed that some of the Minbari were working *with* the Hand, and it would turn into the younger crew exposing the conspiracy of the older members.

    Originally posted by Brother Michael View Post
    The prime remaining antagonists for the Alliance were, primarily, supposed to have been the Drakh.
    And then they lived happily ever after...except for that whole Alliance civil war 500 years later and the Great Burn bit...

    Originally posted by Brother Michael View Post
    It was probably the main intent of the JMS 5 year story arc to emcompass the primary enemy of the "light" as being the Shadows.
    No. To quote jms:

    Originally posted by jms
    There was never the intention of carrying the shadow war through seasons 4 and 5. That'd get boring.
    The show covered large and small. The intra-human conflict. intra-Minbari conflict, and Centauri/Narn conflict were just as important to the storyline as the Shadow/Vorlon conflict and jms points to "The Fall of Centauri Prime" as the episode the five-year arc was rolling towards in both commentary on the DVD and in the script book.

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  • Brother Michael
    replied
    How Will This End? In Fire...

    While being among the many that would probably love to see B5 hit the big screen, I am not sure what direction they would want to carry the story in.

    That is also, I believe, why JMS wasn't wanting to continue with the "Lost Tales" stories. To paraphrase, I think he felt that the B5 story had been told (as much as he wanted to tell it, at least ), and that he didn't want future productions to just continue into smaller and smaller, and less meaningful, stories.

    Personally, I did enjoy the first Lost Tales dvd. I felt that both stories were well suited to the 1/2 to 3/4 hour format in which they were presented, without introducing further complex story elements. I think that was one of the problem with the "Rangers" story/pilot. The idea of introducing yet another malefactor for the Interstellar Alliance (although the enigmatic 'dark ones' alien species - possibly the Thirdspace aliens(??), did have a certain appeal) lacked strength and credibility. As others have noted, where are they in Delenn's predictions at the end of season 4? The prime remaining antagonists for the Alliance were, primarily, supposed to have been the Drakh.

    It was probably the main intent of the JMS 5 year story arc to emcompass the primary enemy of the "light" as being the Shadows. Adding further 'super-villain' aliens/First Ones unnecessarily detracts from the Shadows as being the supreme bad guys of the B5 universe that they are!!; as well as the mystique and dark ambience which still (imho) surrounds them, as unrivaled, in sci-fi to this day! lol.

    Thoughts?!

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  • Ranger 6 and 7/8
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Hi gfranger, welcome!

    It would be nice to see updated effects but sadly B5 never became the Huge Franchise that Trek did so it's probably not very likely. I'm not sure the time has come for that, anyway. I hear that she show doesn't translate to HD TV sets really well but for most purposes I think the effects do the job. It's just that CGI has progressed so far the past several years.

    Jan
    Yes gfranger there was another post previously that discussed it in detail. As Her Majesty, Jan with the ever loyal Narn Bat Squad at her side, stated the aspect ratio used for the initial digital footage, while advanced at the time, does not hold up to the current HD formats. The prices CGI companies charge nowadays would make it definitely more cost-effective to re-shoot rather than go inand try to upgrade the old CGI's.
    Think of it this way. You have home that was beautiful in its' prime, but as a result of neglect from the people you hired to take care of it while you were away, the house is now starting to fall apart. You call a repairman who tells you he can repair the existing home as it stands for $3 million. Then a 2nd company comes in and shows you that they can rebuild it for $1.5 million, but it means tearing the existing house down and rebuilding it from the foundation up, but the appearance would be restored to the original beauty.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by gfranger View Post
    I think that maybe they should go back to the show and vamp them up add new cgi to the show and maybe reair them, cause you never can replace the actors and actresses that were in them, they did do a great job doing the story the way joe wrote it, and a movie could also peak more viewers to them, and get the old crew who did the cgi work on the show and maybe add things to them that maybe he couldn't do then....Just a thought...
    Hi gfranger, welcome!

    It would be nice to see updated effects but sadly B5 never became the Huge Franchise that Trek did so it's probably not very likely. I'm not sure the time has come for that, anyway. I hear that she show doesn't translate to HD TV sets really well but for most purposes I think the effects do the job. It's just that CGI has progressed so far the past several years.

    Jan

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  • gfranger
    replied
    Thinking...

    Hi all, new here i was reading up on this forum, and i had a thought i would like to share... i loved the show with it's story which is and ever will be timeless..and in the past few months i heard other fans that they should remake the show, but i for one don't think that should happen.. I think that maybe they should go back to the show and vamp them up add new cgi to the show and maybe reair them, cause you never can replace the actors and actresses that were in them, they did do a great job doing the story the way joe wrote it, and a movie could also peak more viewers to them, and get the old crew who did the cgi work on the show and maybe add things to them that maybe he couldn't do then....Just a thought...

    Leave a comment:


  • KoshN
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Well, to you at least.
    This (our "No rush." exchange) plus the reply I just got from JMS on rastb5m, can't be a coincidence. Go check it out. You'll get a chuckle.
    Last edited by KoshN; 08-14-2009, 07:35 AM. Reason: typo

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  • Darth_librarian
    replied
    What got me from the podcasts (and JMS and the presenters) was the disconnection between the TV, movie and home video arms of Warners, their need to show constant short term growth and their willingess to poach it from other arms. Given such a layout, I'm suprised B5 lasted so long and made it to DVD at all.

    ATrek like multi-format franhcise could never exist anbd grow in such an environment. It is somwhat countered by the creative freedom he gets though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    JMS will say to us and Warner Brothers "I'm in no rush."...
    Well, to you at least.

    (I changed "the great." to "that great." above.)
    Thanks, my mistake.
    So you think that Warners is completely unaware of what JMS says at conventions or online to fans?
    Pretty much.
    Do you think that nothing gets back to them?
    Even if something did 'get back to them', I don't think it would matter or that it would 'get back' to anybody who cares. I think that WB is a large corporation and not an individual. Considering how JMS has described their corporate structure, I'd say that their focus is on whatever is bringing them a profit now, not on some show that's been off the air for ten years.

    Jan
    Last edited by Jan; 08-14-2009, 03:55 AM.

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  • KoshN
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Mac, Mac, Mac...aren't you the one who can't resist any slightest opportunity to say how little you care about "Legend of the Rangers?" That was a project that JMS did because he had a certain amount of fear of leaving that familiar universe. Far better that he let a really great idea come to him.
    Are you talking about way back in Post 317 in this thread, and then jumping to Post 325 for the following? I had to do a word search on "Rangers" to see what you might be talking about.

    In post 317, my [1] Example of an overly long title: "Babylon 5: The Legend of the Rangers: To Live and Die in Starlight" was hardly a major dig at TLaDiS.


    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Pessimistic as you like to be, the actors are noplace near using walkers (I saw Pat Tallman less than a month ago and she's still just as beautiful as during the series) and the odds of our losing more cast members aren't all that great.
    We'll have to see how many decades the waiting period is. (I changed "the great." to "that great." above.)


    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    And just to pick a nit, JMS isn't saying anything to Warners. When he does, it's going to be "Hey, I've got this great idea..."
    So you think that Warners is completely unaware of what JMS says at conventions or online to fans? Do you think that nothing gets back to them?

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  • Jan
    replied
    Mac, Mac, Mac...aren't you the one who can't resist any slightest opportunity to say how little you care about "Legend of the Rangers?" That was a project that JMS did because he had a certain amount of fear of leaving that familiar universe. Far better that he let a really great idea come to him.

    Pessimistic as you like to be, the actors are noplace near using walkers (I saw Pat Tallman less than a month ago and she's still just as beautiful as during the series) and the odds of our losing more cast members aren't all the great.

    And just to pick a nit, JMS isn't saying anything to Warners. When he does, it's going to be "Hey, I've got this great idea..."

    Jan

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  • KoshN
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    I'm very happy that JMS wants to come up with "...a story that burns to be told." Because IMO that's the only hope we have of it being a success.

    Jan
    Hope? [In the voice of Tom Hanks' "There's no crying in baseball!"] "We have no hope!" [/Tom Hanks]

    At the "I'm in no rush." pace, the original cast will be in walkers, and so will we. Then we'll get a movie where they all walk like Tim Conway as the old man.

    The alternative is a completely new cast, but then all of B5 would have to be redone to match, and that's never going to happen.

    JMS will say to us and Warner Brothers "I'm in no rush." so he doesn't look eager/needy, and Warner Brothers will say "Fine. See ya."
    Last edited by KoshN; 08-14-2009, 05:33 PM. Reason: corrected punctuation error

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