B5Scrolls is now running wild on the internet

[Triple F]

Why do you think his nickname (in the industry) is the Rattlesnake.

[grumbler]

Here's the easiest way to break it down. Since JMS was flat-out writing for seasons 3-5 and usually didn't get to the office until a bit later in the day, and Doug Netter's office was basically down the road on Lankershim, who do you think most people had to talk to for decisions, particularly in the morning?

Plus, I don't think a lot of people necessarily wanted to go to Doug Netter. The cast commentary on "Falling Toward Apotheosis" in which Jerry Doyle compares what happened to his character trying to take out Kosh II to what happened to him trying to get Doug to give him a raise not only was hilarious, but had the ring of truth.

[Joe Nazzaro]

Here's the easiest way to break it down. Since JMS was flat-out writing for seasons 3-5 and usually didn't get to the office until a bit later in the day, and Doug Netter's office was basically down the road on Lankershim, who do you think most people had to talk to for decisions, particularly in the morning?

[Jan]

I just pulled out a random copy of the Official Babylon 5 Magazine (Volume 1, No. 5) to find that JMS's "Last Word" column was devoted entirely to John Copeland; 16 column inches worth, describing all of the areas that John was involved in on the show. I liked the second-to-last paragraph:

Point being: When you see jms, add jc to the line soewhere as you read it...because at all times and in all places, he's standing right beside me.

It's a shame that these aren't available any longer.

Jan

[grumbler]

Triple F has posted the link to many of the sites i visit (either B5 or SciFi related) and i don`t think i have come across any negative posts till i came here.

True, but then you see very few posts at all on those other sites. In fact, I would wonder if the 77 posts here did not comprise the majority of posts on the internet on the topic!

However, it would be a strange thing indeed if someone could create a website so perfect that no one would have anything to criticize about it. If this site has the only people willing to take the time to offer constructive criticism, then so be it.

[jal]

Triple F has posted the link to many of the sites i visit (either B5 or SciFi related) and i don`t think i have come across any negative posts till i came here.

he has been working on his site for a long time and am very glad indeed that it is up and going.

[grumbler]

I havent read all the arguments that are going on here but i think the site has made some nice progress and its quite informative.

And lets not forget well all have something in common we like the show so perhaps we should use that to our advantage to get over the differences i spotted in this thread.

Indeed. And that was what I have been saying, as well - it is a nice site, marred by some "fan silliness" (as Triple F calls it). Even with its silliness, it is still a nice site, full of new (Woot!) information that deserves to be out there on the web so fans can appreciate it.

[Lemon Wolf]

I havent read all the arguments that are going on here but i think the site has made some nice progress and its quite informative.

And lets not forget well all have something in common we like the show so perhaps we should use that to our advantage to get over the differences i spotted in this thread.


Btw i think the site would look even better with newly rendered ships *hint hint*

[Triple F]

It’s a simple conversation. For my part, I’m genuinely not taking offence or getting hot and bothered. Theres’ certain techniques everyone uses in a debate, where it get’s silly is when folks fain ignorance or innocence when using them.

Anyway, as you asked, here they are.

As I said earlier, I’ve only ‘contacted a handful of forums to let folks know the final version is made (seeing how they liked the beta). I imagine, I’ll sit down one day soonish and really blanket the place – since the overwhelming responses appear to indicate the readers are getting a kick out of it.


These are the forums that already knew about the beta from earlier on in the year

http://forum.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=135067

http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?t=11400

http://www.b5tech.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4417

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85779

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php

This is a new site and as you see, the first poster points out his surprise that anyone will be offended by me ‘advertising’ it there. I can look up the original posts to the other sites – if you deem that it’s really necessary - that all say the same thing when first airing the beta version at the start of the year.

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=64058&sid=d7f3c4c1ac81c632dc20bd8ee96593e5

edit
oops, forgot one.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=56143

As I said, it’s not the number of the posts but the content, as only a few folks ever post on a subject (look at the number of views on this thread for example). And the responses to the site is uniformly the same sort of thing. Except for one forum, here. I genuinely do think that a couple or three folks are being a bit too sensitive and seeing things that are really not there. I'm not having a go at jms, but I am highlighting what is prevalent – FAN generated silliness, and even then, that’s only to explain why the content on B5Scrolls is different.

[Jan]

Okay, once again...enough. If the conversation can't turn constructive, I'm simply going to have to close the thread. I'm hardly without fault, either but I can refuse to take the bait that's being offered. And make no mistake, Triple F, what you're doing in the last few posts is nothing more than baiting.

So everybody, neutral corners or get out of the ring completely.

Jan
Moderator

[Triple F]

It doesnÆt relate to the number of responses or the number of people making them, but the content of the responses. Do you really want me to link you into other forums where other people have seen the site.

To me that does seem a bit of a lame thing to do, and taking a guess IÆd imagine the replies on here (if any ) will be something about them not being jms fans or something equally sensible.

The other thing about linking, as you bring up meaningless.

IÆm hearing a lot hear about my attitudes. Not a lot in the way of actual evidence to back that up though. I do say IÆm making fun at silly jms fans, especially those that canÆt separate the myths or themselves from the man himself. Yet I still see a lot of me being negative towards jms himself accusations.

Care to quote!!??

[Jan]

And that speaks volumes.

Not unless you provide data such as how many responses you've gotten from other sites. Without that, it's meaningless.

Jan

[Triple F]

ThereÆs obviously little or no point in replying, again, to the specific various accusations, complaints and observations. Other than to say, that some members on this board are the ONLY people to have made those various accusation, complaints and observations.

And that speaks volumes.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Originally Posted by Triple F
Garibaldis Hair, JoeD80, and Grumbler.
Your making comments based on your perception of things and, dictionary definitions on what a show runner is, and 15 years of jms quotes. IÆll let you into a little secret û each of you are assuming way too much with regards to what happened on Babylon 5 on a day to day basis. Read the bloody site.

You know what Triple F, I would do exactly that, if I could. But, in spite of my interest in reading the site content, I cannot for the reasons I outlined at the start of this thread. I made clear my issues with reading the site, you don't appear minded to do anything about that.

Fine, that's your choice.

I don't have any problem with what you are doing here, and certainly don't have any issue with drawing attention to those people who previously haven't had it. However, you don't help your cause when you state

I DID have an agenda û I thought it was obvious. Knocking some of the sillier fan generated jms-centric stuff. ThatÆs it.

That, for me, is a shame. I think the exercise you have done in pulling together all of these alternate views and enriching the knowledge of the fans by allowing us to see some more of what went on behind the scenes is a great agenda in itself, and far more likely to endear you to the "JMS-centric" fans than telling them that your sole agenda was to knock them.

If you can/will address the visual shortcomings of the site, I would love to spend some time poring over that information and those views. If not, I guess that's my loss in the whole scheme of things.

[grumbler]

Garibaldis Hair, JoeD80, and Grumbler.
Your making comments based on your perception of things and, dictionary definitions on what a show runner is, and 15 years of jms quotes. IÆll let you into a little secret û each of you are assuming way too much with regards to what happened on Babylon 5 on a day to day basis. Read the bloody site.

You have opinions. So do I. I posted links to the site to around a half dozen forums over the week-end, and those that have so far responded have opinions as well...

You do not have a monopoly on either the truth or understanding.

I did read your site, and posted quotes from your site. How could I have done the latter without doing the former?

I simply pointed out places where I think you went much further than the evidence you presented supported. The weakness in you site, IMO, is in your own prose. The stuff you quote from others is great. The quotes you made up destroy the credibility of your site, as I see it. Look at the "why" pages, and you will realize that all of the quotes on the second and third pages are entirely made up by you to try to give evidence to your argument. Google them to make sure. This is strawmanism at its purest, and that is not honest.

If you don't like the message, don't smite the messenger.

You asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Ignore it, by all means, if you wish.

Just don't pretend that the message is bad because the messenger is "assuming way too much with regards to what happened on Babylon 5 on a day to day basis" because that just makes you look like an ill-tempered boob. I do not have a dog in this fight. I think JMS tells us what he thinks and remembers and I don't think either his opinions or his memory are infallible.

It would be nice to see your site (and its actual contributors) get the credit it and they deserve for exposing the work of all the design people, but frankly your attitude makes that unlikely. It is a pity, because people trusted you with their words and opinions, and they deserve better than your petulance.

Rethink your insistence that you must retain all of the made-up quotes from "JMS fanatics" on your "why" pages 2 and 3, and I can live with all of the artificial "discrepancies" in the ship pages.