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  • #1

    Inspirations

    When Crusade first came out five years ago (Do you realize we'd be in season 5 now? Damn it!) I was working 7 days a week and I'd watch the show at work. I couldn't put my finger on what was so familiar about the show. A while back, I came across a site that compared Crusade to the cult anime Starblazers. I watched Starblazers as a kid in the 80's, and I loved it. I think it's the show that got me into serialized TV. Anyways, on to the similarities:

    1. The crew is on a quest for a cure.
    2. The enemy that bombed Earth is out to get them.
    3. They have a "big gun" on the ship.

    After I learned this, it made me love the show that much more. Has anyone else seen Starblazers and does anyone else know of other things JMS drew from besides the obvious sources discussed before?

    Speaking of inspirations and Crusade...

    A friend once told me he found on this site a post about the time Lucas spoke with JMS. I was watching that episode of Crusade where Gideon is on the bike over the metropolis, and I thought "This looks like that chase scene in Attack of the Clones..." Do you think it's possible that Lucas paid homage to B5 in this? Watch both scenes and see the similarities.
    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.
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  • #2
    Back when Crusade was in production, yet unaired, there was a comment from JMS saying that people would say "it's just like that show..." and he would have again the pleasure of putting a few "wham" episodes to prove those people wrong.

    I thought he was referring to the original Star Trek (Crusade's five year mission: to boldly go where no human has gone before... to find the cure), but maybe he meant that Starblazers show?

    I don't recall seeing it.
    But a different anime show (or a combo of three if you will) got me into serialized TV: Robotech.
    I had seen another anime series, Mazzinger Z, before but Robotech was much better.
    ...and does anyone else know of other things JMS drew from besides the obvious sources discussed before?
    I missed that discussion so if anyone would be so kind to summarize those "obvious sources" I'd appreciate it.

    I kind of doubt that Lucas would pay homage to B5/Crusade. The similarities may be natural, due to the similar circumstances of both chase sequences. Not that it wouldn't be very cool if it was a homage...
    Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
    James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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    • #3
      Lots of resemblence to Starblazers, even to the point where they both had Captains named Gideon!

      Coincidence? Maybe not entirely, but i think resemblences are unintended.
      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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      • #4
        <<Coincidence? Maybe not entirely, but i think resemblences are unintended.>>

        I think it's like a taboo to admit you are paying homage. No one admits it most of the time, but really, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's what made me appreciate Crusade even more.

        Was Gideon in SB the a-hole guy that came in with the modern ships?

        As for Lucas, there is also the whole Psi Corps thing about taking people at birth, like the Jedi do. Lucas would tell you it was his plan all along, but given his contradictory statements over the years, anything he says must be taken with a grain of salt. I think he liked B5 and borrows from it. But I'm just opining.

        And Starblazers is the only anime I like. The rest is so...weird.
        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
          <<Coincidence? Maybe not entirely, but i think resemblences are unintended.>>

          I think it's like a taboo to admit you are paying homage. No one admits it most of the time, but really, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's what made me appreciate Crusade even more. ...
          JMS has made many posts in which he acknowledges his inspirations. I don't recall Starblazers being one of them, but he gives a nod to the Lensman series for its epic nature, to LotR for the inspiration for what befell at Z'Ha'Dum, to Demolished Man for some ideas on Teep-Mundane issues, etc. Its not really a taboo, its just that most writers don't like to do it.
          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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          • #6
            <<but he gives a nod to the Lensman series >>

            That's probably where he got the idea for the Rangers, like Lucas did for the Jedi. It's the "mystical guardian" archetype or some such. While the Rangers aren't mystical per se, they do have that aura about them, in that they follow Valen and have a code.
            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
              That's probably where he got the idea for the Rangers, like Lucas did for the Jedi. It's the "mystical guardian" archetype or some such. While the Rangers aren't mystical per se, they do have that aura about them, in that they follow Valen and have a code.
              Wow! Here I thought he got them from the LotR, what with the same name, same mission (looking out for the return of the "Shadow minions"), the remnants of a once-greater force having been largely ignored over time, guarding people who are largely unaware of their existance, etc!
              I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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              • #8
                And where did Tolkein get it from? Oh thats right! Silly me! He invented it!

                (hopefully jms wont get sued for for copyright infringment!)
                Last edited by CRONAN; 06-06-2004, 06:55 AM.

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                • #9
                  Starblazers

                  Used to watch that after school. I'd never before seen a cartoon where characters died. As I recall, the Captain in the series was Captain Avatar - that is, until he died. The Argo / Yamato also had that little problem of power loss after deploying their primary weapon, the Wave Motion Gun. It was bad ass.

                  Whether Crusade was going to introduce gay Drakh named Desslok no one can tell.

                  Stephen King's "The Stand" was also used as inspiration for Babylon 5. JMS loved how King was able to simply kill off half the characters right in the middle of the book; something JMS was always threatening but never really delievered on. The Stand also borrowed from LOtR, right down to the concept of Flagg's "eye" sweeping across the blighted American landscape like a beacon.

                  Londo is Harold Lauder. Luckily, Morden didn't have to give him sexual favors to win his allegience
                  Only a fool fights in a burning house.

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                  • #10
                    JMS explicitly denied that Starblazers had any influence on Crusade, and that fact is Crusade wasn't a story about a serach for a cure to the Drakh plague. (How could it have been? We knew going in the Earth survived, we'd seen "SiL" and "Deconstruction" after all.)

                    After 13 episodes of B5 one might have thought that the show was "about" Sinclair's missing 24 hours, the mystery of the Minbari surrender and the growing Narn threat to the Centauri. One would have been wrong.

                    Crusade was about conspiracies, the exploitation of left over Shadow tech, about "who ... you serve" and "who ... you trust." The plague story was merely our entry-point into the larger story. A cure for the plague would have been introduced in S2, although Gideon and company would have discovered that the cure was not entirley what it appeared to be, and that it represented another kind of danger. When their warnings were covered up by those within EarthForce with an agenda to protect, Gideon and his crew would have stolen Excalibur and "gone rogue" in an effort to get the truth out. At least three and a half seasons would have been devoted to this story, and even the first season would have had several episodes that set up the players and the mysteries of the later seasons, especially EarthForce's secret projects.

                    If JMS was aware of Starblazers at all, he probably used the apparent similarities as a soure of misdirection, a way of fooling the audience into thinking they had the whole thing figured out, then hitting them over the head with baseball bat when they least expect it - a favorite literary trick of his.


                    Regards,

                    Joe
                    Joseph DeMartino
                    Sigh Corps
                    Pat Tallman Division

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CRONAN
                      And where did Tolkein get it from? Oh thats right! Silly me! He invented it!

                      (hopefully jms wont get sued for for copyright infringment!)
                      Tolkien was also a self-acknowledged concept thief (in fact, it was to expose these "Old English" legends that he started his writing). So his estate is in no position to sue over concept theft!
                      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        <<(How could it have been? We knew going in the Earth survived, we'd seen "SiL" and "Deconstruction" after all.)>>

                        Well, the first season would have been, at least. And not every season of Starblazers was about finding a cure, either. Heh. This is hilarious.
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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