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Episode Order and New Thoughts

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  • Episode Order and New Thoughts

    So, some of you may remember my attempt to re-order Season 1 awhile back. I then made an attempt to do some reordering of later seasons. I later looked at my old script books and noticed something -- jms tends to write scripts in the order of the story, with only one or two exceptions, in which case he writes on the script where the episode is supposed to go (i.e. Chrysalis). I then took these dates, and looked through the archives to when other author's scripts came in. I was messing around with the order a bit more, when I noticed this message:

    Yes and no. No particular time slot was conceived of, but I wrote this with an eye to knowing what happens to series in syndication: they end up being stripped daily. So I knew it would end up being seen this way, and that was going to be the preferred way of both watching and writing it. It's when you see it that way that it actually works best, because the threads in the garment are pulled closer together, rather than years apart, and you can see the connections and the patterns more clearly.
    So I thought -- did he actually write this show to be viewed in 5-episode blocks? I worked backwards from the finale, and sure enough, interesting patterns emerge. Every time a "last time on Babylon 5" recap appears -- it's on a Monday episode. In the memos for Season 3, originally War Without End was going to be episode 311 and 312 -- it got moved to 316 and 317 -- exactly 5 days ahead! Then I realized something else -- 5 years gives you 22 weeks of 5 episodes each. The beauty of doing 5 years of 22 episodes now makes even more sense! This does contradict one or two points on my earlier attempt, but I think this order still makes a lot of sense, and most of the character moments work in season one. Working with the script dates, and this idea, I reordered a bit of season one and season two (along with a couple others) and present to you my new order for viewing, divided into each 5-episode block:

    Week 1

    Midnight on the Firing Line
    Soul Hunter
    Born to the Purple
    Believers
    Infection

    Week 2

    The War Prayer
    And the Sky Full of Stars
    The Parliament of Dreams
    Survivors
    Mind War

    Week 3

    Grail
    Deathwalker
    By Any Means Necessary
    *The Quality of Mercy
    Eyes

    *The Quality of Mercy script was started before Signs and Portents, and Delenn is gone from the station in this episode and Deathwalker.

    Week 4

    Signs and Portents
    Babylon Squared
    Legacies
    TKO
    A Voice in the Wilderness Part I

    Week 5

    A Voice in the Wilderness Part II
    Chrysalis
    Points of Departure
    Revelations
    The Geometry of Shadows

    Week 6

    A Distant Star
    The Long Dark
    Spider in the Web
    A Race Through Dark Places
    Soul Mates

    Week 7

    The Coming of Shadows
    GROPOS
    All Alone in the Night
    Acts of Sacrifice
    *And Now for a Word

    *This one is in script order, and is related to the other episodes of this block.

    Week 8

    Hunter, Prey
    There All the Honor Lies
    Knives
    *Confessions and Lamentations
    *In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum

    *This is in script order

    Week 9

    Divided Loyalties
    The Long, Twilight Struggle
    Comes the Inqusitor
    The Fall of Night
    Matters of Honor

    Week 10

    Convictions
    A Day in the Strife
    Voiecs of Authority
    Passing Through Gethsemane
    Exogenesis

    Week 11

    *Dust to Dust
    Messages from Earth
    Point of No Return
    Severed Dreams
    Ceremonies of Light and Dark

    *I flipped Dust to Dust and Exogenesis because there's a Dust reference in Exogenesis that seems to be a reminder to lead into this episode, and there's a Clark reference in Dust to Dust that seems to fit the theme of the other episodes in this week.

    Week 12

    A Late Delivery from Avalon
    Sic Transit Vir
    Ship of Tears
    Interludes and Examinations
    War Without End, Part One

    Week 13

    *War Without End, Part Two
    *Walkabout
    Grey 17 Is Missing
    And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
    Shadow Dancing

    *This is in script order and production order.

    Week 14

    Z'ha'dum
    The Hour of the Wolf
    Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
    The Summoning
    Falling Toward Apotheosis

    Week 15

    The Long Night
    Into the Fire
    Epiphanies
    The Illusion of Truth
    Atonement

    Week 16

    Racing Mars
    Lines of Communication
    Conflicts of Interest
    Rumors, Bargains and Lies
    Moments of Transition

    Week 17

    No Surrender, No Retreat
    The Exercise of Vital Powers
    The Face of the Enemy
    Intersections in Real Time
    Between the Darkness and the Light

    Week 18

    Endgame
    Rising Star
    The Deconstruction of Falling Stars
    No Compromises
    The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari

    Week 19

    *A View from the Gallery
    *The Paragon of Animals
    Learning Curve
    Strange Relations
    Secrets of the Soul

    *These two were produced in reverse order of the script dates. I put them in script date order here.

    Week 20

    In the Kingdom of the Blind
    A Tragedy of Telepaths
    Phoenix Rising
    The Ragged Edge
    Day of the Dead

    Week 21

    The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father
    Mediations on the Abyss
    Darkness Ascending
    And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
    Movements of Fire and Shadow

    Week 22

    The Fall of Centauri Prime
    Wheel of Fire
    Objects in Motion
    Objects at Rest
    Sleeping in Light

  • #2
    Wow. Thanks for the effort of putting this together and sharing it. I'll have to give it a go.

    Comment


    • #3
      I still believe that Walkabout belongs before War Without End because it changes the report Sinclair makes to the Vorlons. After Walkabout Sinclair is reporting that Lyta and the Whitestar work, before only that they exist and are untested.
      Andrew Swallow

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow View Post
        I still believe that Walkabout belongs before War Without End because it changes the report Sinclair makes to the Vorlons. After Walkabout Sinclair is reporting that Lyta and the Whitestar work, before only that they exist and are untested.
        I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? All Sinclair knows is that he's going back with Babylon 4 to give the Vorlons and the Minbari a base to continue fighting the shadows. The Minbari and the Vorlons were already fighting together in the past. The White Star was later built as a combination of Vorlon & Minbari tech. What does that have to do with Sinclair? As for telepaths, the Vorlons must have known that telepaths existed, since they appear to have some telepathic ability of their own, and could have figured it out on their own that telepaths were a good weapon to use on the shadows. The shadows already knew that telepaths were bad in the past, because they killed the Narn telepaths! It seems likely the Vorlons would have had that knowledge too? The Vorlon altered human telepaths didn't start appearing 1000 years ago in the story -- it's much later when that happens (2050 or somewhere around there...I don't remember the date off the top of my head.)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow View Post
          I still believe that Walkabout belongs before War Without End because it changes the report Sinclair makes to the Vorlons. After Walkabout Sinclair is reporting that Lyta and the Whitestar work, before only that they exist and are untested.
          I think if you change this to Sheridan, it actually makes sense. I'd have to rewatch the order of the episodes, though - I'm not sure that there's anything about the DVD order that's off, but I'll think about it when I re-watch them one of these days.

          As for telepaths, the Vorlons must have known that telepaths existed, since they appear to have some telepathic ability of their own,
          The Vorlons didn't just alter some human telepaths, they *created* telepaths on Earth. Telepaths did evolve naturally on some planets, but not on Earth.
          Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jonas View Post
            I think if you change this to Sheridan, it actually makes sense. I'd have to rewatch the order of the episodes, though - I'm not sure that there's anything about the DVD order that's off, but I'll think about it when I re-watch them one of these days.
            Walkabout before War Without End is also the same as the DVD order.

            Originally posted by Jonas View Post
            The Vorlons didn't just alter some human telepaths, they *created* telepaths on Earth. Telepaths did evolve naturally on some planets, but not on Earth.
            Sorry, my wording wasn't clear. When I said Vorlon-altered I was referring to Vorlon-altered *humans* as opposed to altering already existing telepaths.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
              Walkabout before War Without End is also the same as the DVD order.

              Sorry, my wording wasn't clear. When I said Vorlon-altered I was referring to Vorlon-altered *humans* as opposed to altering already existing telepaths.
              As shown by the books and Lyta's statements, between the wars the Vorlons went round the galaxy creating telepaths. They may have done this as a way of helping the younger races or as preparation for the 2260 Shadow War. It is reasonable to assume that any such preparations will be triggered by what Sinclair told them 1000 years ago.
              Andrew Swallow

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow View Post
                As shown by the books and Lyta's statements, between the wars the Vorlons went round the galaxy creating telepaths. They may have done this as a way of helping the younger races or as preparation for the 2260 Shadow War. It is reasonable to assume that any such preparations will be triggered by what Sinclair told them 1000 years ago.
                So the Vorlons couldn't have figured this out on their own without Sinclair telling them? The Vorlons and Shadows had been fighting for a million years, and had been guiding the younger races already too. The Shadows wouldn't have killed the Narn telepaths in the war 1000 years ago if nobody knew that telepaths were a good weapon already. The Narn telepaths already existed in that war, and were killed. Those telepaths weren't created later for the 2260 war. If the Vorlons needed to be told by Sinclair to make telepaths after this, then they weren't paying attention to their own war.
                Last edited by JoeD80; 06-16-2008, 03:49 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
                  So the Vorlons couldn't have figured this out on their own without Sinclair telling them? The Vorlons and Shadows had been fighting for a million years, and had been guiding the younger races already too. The Shadows wouldn't have killed the Narn telepaths in the war 1000 years ago if nobody knew that telepaths were a good weapon already. The Narn telepaths already existed in that war, and were killed. Those telepaths weren't created later for the 2260 war. If the Vorlons needed to be told by Sinclair to make telepaths after this, then they weren't paying attention to their own war.
                  My guess would be that Vorlons probably created the Narn telepaths as well. They didn't modify humans until later, because they didn't figure Earth was advanced enough to make human telepaths matter until they became sufficiently advanced technologically.

                  I am also pretty convinced in my own mind that telepathy is a requirement before a race can advance to First Ones-like status. It may be that races evolve telepaths naturally, and all the Vorlons did was accelerate the process and maybe help guide it into a certain path to produce the types of telepaths needed to help against the Shadows. It could easily be that the "weapon" telepath capacity was a byproduct of the general "guide the younger races towards First One status" program and that the Vorlons would have accelerated the development (or initiated the development, if it didn't come naturally) even if the Shadows had disappeared along with the other First Ones.
                  I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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