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  • I just don't know how you guys come up with these obscure sites...and I ain't no stranger to the web.... Kudos!

    Anyway : somebody said that there were no signs of Franklin being a pacifist but how about the time Bester comes on board? There is actual talk about killing him among the commandstaff and Franklin says something like "I will not condone murder"?

    Pretty pacifist to me. Of course a pacifist is not necessarily a person who refuses to fight under any circumstance.
    "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

    Comment


    • Of course a pacifist is not necessarily a person who refuses to fight under any circumstance.
      Actually, that's pretty much the definition of a pacifist. That someone would not condone cold-blooded murder (which most people would not condone) tells us absolutely nothing about how that person feels about combat - whereas a pacifist would object to both.

      Regards,

      Joe
      Joseph DeMartino
      Sigh Corps
      Pat Tallman Division

      Comment


      • Hi Joe,

        From Webster :

        Main Entry: pacÀiÀfism
        Pronunciation: 'pa-s&-"fi-z&m
        Function: noun
        Etymology: French pacifisme, from pacifique pacific
        1 : opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes; specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds
        2 : an attitude or policy of nonresistance
        - pacÀiÀfist /-fist/ noun
        What I mean to say is that pacifists do not start a fight but reserve the right to defend themselves. The question then becomes "when do I feel I have to defend myself". Did you see Strawdogs with Dustin Hoffman? That's what I mean.

        Semantics semantics...

        Greetz,

        TM.
        "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Towelmaster
          I just don't know how you guys come up with these obscure sites...and I ain't no stranger to the web.... Kudos!
          Agreed. Good work, Bonehead. I just do't have it in me to specificy the 1/100ths of a second within SD when Franklin's sleeve is revealed, unless challenged on it. Sorry, ZD, but I think we can rest on our laurels on this one.

          Anyway : somebody said that there were no signs of Franklin being a pacifist but how about the time Bester comes on board? There is actual talk about killing him among the commandstaff and Franklin says something like "I will not condone murder"?

          Pretty pacifist to me. Of course a pacifist is not necessarily a person who refuses to fight under any circumstance.
          "I will not condone murder" is a pacifist notion? How does that make the term pacifist meaningful, given that 99.9999% of any sampling of people would agree with that concept?
          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Towelmaster
            Hi Joe,

            From Webster :
            [not caught]

            What I mean to say is that pacifists do not start a fight but reserve the right to defend themselves. The question then becomes "when do I feel I have to defend myself". Did you see Strawdogs with Dustin Hoffman? That's what I mean.

            Semantics semantics...

            Greetz,

            TM.
            Doesn't help much, since your definitions don't match your conclusion that "pacifists do not start a fight but reserve the right to defend themselves." You have created a definition out of whole cloth, methinks, and only cloaked it in the dictionary.

            Certainly, Franklin never expressed "opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes" nor did he espouse a policy of specifically a "refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds." Nor did he adopt "an attitude or policy of nonresistance" in any episode. He was a lover of life, but not a pacificst. They are entirely different things.
            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Towelmaster
              I just don't know how you guys come up with these obscure sites...and I ain't no stranger to the web.... Kudos!

              Anyway : somebody said that there were no signs of Franklin being a pacifist but how about the time Bester comes on board? There is actual talk about killing him among the commandstaff and Franklin says something like "I will not condone murder"?

              Pretty pacifist to me. Of course a pacifist is not necessarily a person who refuses to fight under any circumstance.
              I don't believe Franklin is a pacifist. He carried a PPG at times and knew some form of martial art or was at least hand-to-hand combat trained.

              And midwinter is anything but obscure. It's the best damn B5 site there is, was, ever will be.
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment


              • Dr Franklin shoots a Drazi in 'Moments of Fire and Shadow'.

                In "In the Beginning" Franklin refuses to hand over his notes on the Minbari. There is a big journey between the two.
                Andrew Swallow

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller

                  And midwinter is anything but obscure. It's the best damn B5 site there is, was, ever will be.
                  I think they ment the other one I linked to showing the shoulder patches.

                  In regards to Franklin being a pacifist, well, he cant be. Several episodes have we seen him jump straight into fist fights without hesitation. In fact, I seem to remember at least once where he throws the first punch.

                  A true pacifist would avoid this at all costs, even plead with his opponant that he is against violence, or to the extreme, hide in the corner whimpering. Of course he never does any of this.

                  As grumbler said, he was a lover of life and believed all life was special, which stemmed from his nature as a healer and a doctor. But this is just his belief as a humanitarian, and is only one part of his character, not his entire character. Of course, that's one of the reasons we like B5 for the 3 dimensional characterisations.

                  The only one we cant seem to answer is his rank. I've looked at every picture I can find but you cannot see his shoulder insignia clearly enough. Perhaps one of you that posts on the newsgroup could pose this question ?
                  *Den-Sha*

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bonehead
                    The only one we cant seem to answer is his rank. I've looked at every picture I can find but you cannot see his shoulder insignia clearly enough. Perhaps one of you that posts on the newsgroup could pose this question ?
                    If you look at SD there are several shots that show clearly that his rank insignia is the same as Ivanova's. He is therefore a Commander.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                    Comment


                    • He better be a commander. He'd been in Earthforce before Ivanova, albeit with a strained situation at one point or two.
                      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by grumbler
                        If you look at SD there are several shots that show clearly that his rank insignia is the same as Ivanova's. He is therefore a Commander.
                        Yeah, sorry, I think you said that earlier in this thread. I'm having a bit of a braindead day today. Lack of sleep from my constant (middle of the night) attention seeking new kitten.
                        *Den-Sha*

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by grumbler
                          He was a lover of life, but not a pacificst. They are entirely different things.
                          O.K. I can live with that.
                          "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                            And midwinter is anything but obscure. It's the best damn B5 site there is, was, ever will be.
                            Yes, of course I know midwinter and that is indeed one of the best b5-sites.

                            I was more thinking of the third link : http://www.st-spike.de/pages/nontrek/ea.htm . I had never heard of that one...
                            "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

                            Comment


                            • Okay, I happened to come across the EA Factbook yesterday and I must say that I wish they'd just either discontinue these books from Mongoose Publishing or get someone to clear this stuff before it goes to press.

                              First, on the EF ranking system:

                              They call the space service the "Navy." They have separate ranks listed for this "Navy" and "Army." They do have an admiral rank in the "Navy" and general in the "Army."

                              On this Army...apparently they are aware of the Marines in the episode GROPOS, as they do mention them when talking about the Army Rangers, but there isn't a section on them.

                              The history of the EA doesn't look to match what we read in the Psi Corps trilogy.

                              This book is a mess, but I did agree with one thing:

                              They mention that while space travel and warfare tech has advanced, the ground tech is still relatively the same. Tanks, cars, missiles, etc., haven't changed in a few hundred years. This is one reason the Minbari handed their asses to them during the war.

                              To be honest, I'd avoid these Mongoose books, save for one thing: The season guides. They are filled with detailed episode synopses and color photos.
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                                To be honest, I'd avoid these Mongoose books, save for one thing: The season guides. They are filled with detailed episode synopses and color photos.
                                If you mean, "I'd avoid these Mongoose books" for any canonical info about the show, I agree totally.

                                But their use is fine for gamers who simply need more detail than is available directly from the show.

                                As a kid I played lots of Star Trek related games (both roleplay and miniture battles) and always kept in mind the difference between the "made up" fluff that helped to flesh out my gaming and the "real" information from the series.

                                haha just makes me laugh that with a straight face, I can differentiate "real" and "made up" Star Trek or Babylon 5. My nerdiness is worn unabashedly upon my sleeve (which I sewed as part of my Sci-Fi Con outfit... jk)!

                                Comment

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