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  • #91
    Yeah, I thought he was military. I don't know what CRONAN is talking about. [/B][/QUOTE]

    Clearly, you thought wrong. The quote I posted was written by jms, not I. Take his word for it.
    Last edited by CRONAN; 07-08-2004, 11:55 PM.

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    • #92
      <<Okay, according to this post, the medical division is not a part of the EA mil, but employed by B5. This being so, he wouldn't have a military rank.>>

      Despite the fact that he wears the insignia? I think that he IS military but most of his staff aren't.
      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

      Comment


      • #93
        ''Security is under the jurisdiction of EA, but are a separate component, staffed under B5 financing. These, and
        medical, and scientific and environmental and other areas have their own
        symbol, which is worn on their chest and shoulder.''

        ......which would explain the EA symbol on his chest, as he is under the EAs juristiction.
        Last edited by CRONAN; 07-09-2004, 06:25 AM.

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        • #94
          I find Dr Franklin's membership of Earthforce very odd. I can believe that a pacifist would get conscripted in during a war but I would expect him to be demobbed afterwards. Even if he did not volunteer to be demobbed, a period of imprisonment for cowardice/lack of patriotism would mark him down as someone to be got rid of.
          Andrew Swallow

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
            I find Dr Franklin's membership of Earthforce very odd. I can believe that a pacifist would get conscripted in during a war but I would expect him to be demobbed afterwards. Even if he did not volunteer to be demobbed, a period of imprisonment for cowardice/lack of patriotism would mark him down as someone to be got rid of.
            Dont forget the incredible pull his fatehr, General Franklin has.... that might have been enough to get the ill-advised prosecution rescinded or expunged.
            Vorlonkosh since 1996!!

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
              I find Dr Franklin's membership of Earthforce very odd. I can believe that a pacifist would get conscripted in during a war but I would expect him to be demobbed afterwards. Even if he did not volunteer to be demobbed, a period of imprisonment for cowardice/lack of patriotism would mark him down as someone to be got rid of.
              I wonder why you would consider Franklin a pacifist, as clearly he is not based on what we see in the show. He voted "fight" with no apparent hesitation in the command staff meeting in Severed Dreams. He demurred against the violence of the Mars resistance only when it came to attacking civilians. He was apparently commanding a White Star in the Earth campaign. He never said anything that i would associate with a pacifist stance.

              He DID object to using medical knowlege for biological warfare, but this isn't a pacificst stance but a moral stance regarding biowar. Lots and lots of non-pacifist nations signed treaties agreeing to outlaw such things.

              His career was resurrected, one would presume, when he went on the "suicide mission" to try to end the Minbari War. Voranek's note about his father would help as well. He was from a military family and it isn't all that surprising that he would himself be in the military. That the military governor of B5 would have a military man as his medical advisor isn't unusual either - it happened often in Panama and the Philippines, for instance when those had US military governors.
              I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
                I find Dr Franklin's membership of Earthforce very odd.\
                Franklin is not a member of the EA. The reasons behind this have already been discussed on this page.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by nanorc
                  Franklin is not a member of the EA. The reasons behind this have already been discussed on this page.
                  Actually, I would say you are dead wrong, for reasons that have ALSO been discussed in this topic! Franklin isn't just a member of the EA, he is a member of Earthforce and on occasion wears his uniform.
                  I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by grumbler
                    Actually, I would say you are dead wrong, for reasons that have ALSO been discussed in this topic! Franklin isn't just a member of the EA, he is a member of Earthforce and on occasion wears his uniform.
                    Very well. Please specify the reasons behind your assumption.
                    Mine are as follows.

                    ''Sinclair and other officers are pure EA military, so they get the
                    EA pins on the chest. (Also the techs wear them in the dome, and others
                    in charge of various divisions.) Security is under the jurisdiction of
                    EA, but are a separate component, staffed under B5 financing. These, and
                    medical, and scientific and environmental and other areas have their own
                    symbol, which is worn on their chest and shoulder. You can tell who works
                    for EA because they have the EA also on their shoulder, whereas those who
                    are employed directly by B5 have the B5 symbol on their shoulder.''

                    -jms

                    ''There's a slightly different cut for grunt-level security, and a slightly
                    greener look. Station techs (maintainance crews and the like) generally get
                    yellow outfits with the B5 logo (and are not directly part of the EA
                    structure; they work at and for the station per se). Control techs, in the
                    observation dome, for instance, generally don't wear jackets on duty, but
                    rather shirts with the B5 logo. The shift commander, though, does wear a
                    jacket with his uniform. (When B5 opens, you see Laural give a command to the
                    shift commander, who then relays it to others. You can trace the line of
                    command in the dome from there.)''

                    To my knowledge, Franklin is never reffered to as the ''Chief Medical Officer'', but ''Medical Chief of Staff''. One is a military rank. The other is not.

                    Though the medical division is not specified in the above quotes, I do not think it is unreasonable to seperate it from the worker and security divisions in this respect.
                    Last edited by nanorc; 07-17-2004, 05:43 AM.

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                    • To settle this argument we need a picture of Dr Franklin in his officer's uniform taken from the side. I can find plenty of pictures of him as a doctor and a few from the front.
                      Andrew Swallow

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                      • Originally posted by nanorc
                        Very well. Please specify the reasons behind your assumption.
                        Mine are as follows.

                        ''Sinclair and other officers are pure EA military, so they get the
                        EA pins on the chest. (Also the techs wear them in the dome, and others
                        in charge of various divisions.) Security is under the jurisdiction of
                        EA, but are a separate component, staffed under B5 financing. These, and
                        medical, and scientific and environmental and other areas have their own
                        symbol, which is worn on their chest and shoulder. You can tell who works
                        for EA because they have the EA also on their shoulder, whereas those who
                        are employed directly by B5 have the B5 symbol on their shoulder.''

                        -jms
                        Franklin, in Severed Dreams, is in his uniform. I assume you have looked at this episode, cited by me before. Then you have noticed that he is wearing the EA pin on his chest (exactly as JMS says that he would, as one of "the other officers." He has the EA patch on his left sleeve up at the shoulder (though the crest in it for his and Garibali's are different from that of Sheridan and Ivanova). He lacks the winged B5 on the right shoulder that Sheridan, Garibaldi, and Ivanova have. My guess would be that this is a pilot's patch of some sort. He has the red EA "medical staff" bar below the EA on his chest. How could this post by JMS be evidence for your argument rather than evidence for mine?

                        ''There's a slightly different cut for grunt-level security, and a slightly
                        greener look. Station techs (maintainance crews and the like) generally get
                        yellow outfits with the B5 logo (and are not directly part of the EA
                        structure; they work at and for the station per se). Control techs, in the
                        observation dome, for instance, generally don't wear jackets on duty, but
                        rather shirts with the B5 logo. The shift commander, though, does wear a
                        jacket with his uniform. (When B5 opens, you see Laural give a command to the
                        shift commander, who then relays it to others. You can trace the line of
                        command in the dome from there.)''
                        Franklin's uniform cut is identical to all the other officers. His rank insignia are identical to Ivanova's.

                        To my knowledge, Franklin is never reffered to as the ''Chief Medical Officer'', but ''Medical Chief of Staff''. One is a military rank. The other is not.
                        His title as I always here it is "Chief of Staff of the Medlab Facility." That is not a military rank, but then niether are either of ''Chief Medical Officer'', or ''Medical Chief of Staff'.

                        Though the medical division is not specified in the above quotes, I do not think it is unreasonable to seperate it from the worker and security divisions in this respect.
                        I am not sure what you mean here. My impression of what JMS was discussing is that the EA pays for certain things like the actual defense forces (Starfuries, defense grid, etc) but the station is required to pay for "normal operating costs" like security, dock workers, medical care, etc from station revenues (e.g. docking fees).

                        Nowhere that I have seen does JMS say that Franklin isn't military, or that a military officer could not be appointed as "Chief of Staff of the Medlab Facility." It clearly doesn't seem to be a requirement, but in the face of nearly overwhelming evidence that Franklin was a military officer with an EA uniform and an EA rank it surely cannot be plauibly argued as being impossible. A pertinent post by JMS would convince me otherwise, but the generalized posts followed by unsupported assumptions are unconvincing to say the least.
                        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
                          To settle this argument we need a picture of Dr Franklin in his officer's uniform taken from the side. I can find plenty of pictures of him as a doctor and a few from the front.
                          I don't have video capture capability, but if you watch the portion of Severed Dreams where Captain Hiroshi briefs the command staff and then the discussion among them following Hiroshi's departure you will see his uniform from many angles. I am confident you will be convinced.
                          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                          Comment


                          • <<and an EA rank>>

                            Let's not confuse EA and EF. Even if Franklin wasn't military (and he is) he would still be EA. He is EF and EA.
                            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                            Comment


                            • Speaking of SD , grum, I just watched it last night. I do have capture capability with my three year old Intel webcam. I just need to hook up the cam to the DVD player or VCR via an A/V jack. Now which scene would you guys need captured if I ever get around to it? Can you give me the 00:00:00?
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment


                              • Ok this is what I understood :

                                Babylon 5 is an Earth Alliance station. Earth Force is the military for the EA. Therefor all station personnel work for the EA (whether military or not)

                                Regular station personnel (non military) do 'not' have the EA chest pin or the EA left shoulder patch. Instead they wear a departmental chest patch and the B5 logo shoulder patch

                                Standard EA uniform

                                Members of Earth Force (military) wear the EA chest pin and the EA left shoulder patch ( there are different versions for different departments eg medical or security)

                                Earth Force

                                You can clearly see that Franklin wears the uniform of an Earth Force officer the same as the rest (except Zack.)

                                Also found this site which shows the different shoulder patches along with all the various rank insignia.

                                Uniform Insignia
                                Last edited by Bonehead; 07-19-2004, 11:12 AM.
                                *Den-Sha*

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