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When did you start empathizing with G'Kar?

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  • When did you start empathizing with G'Kar?

    Personnally, I did not feel especially sorry for the Narn until their homeworld was orbitally bombarded. They were the aggressors for all of season one and part of season two. The Narn would have waged an aggressive war against the Centauri if they had had the opportunity. I think the B5 characters started feeling sorry for the Narn too fast. In my mind, they should have been pretty standoffish until they discovered that the Shadows were assisting the Centauri.

    But that does beg another interesting question: would G'Kar have accepted Morden's offer if he knew what was really being offered?

  • #2
    Personly I only empathized for G'KAr and Tal'on (sp?), the rest pissed me off, that did they do after the occupation? did thay thank G'Kar? no. Did thay try to come come to terms with the horros of war? no, they go back to the old song and dance of revenge and bomb centaury prime behind the back of Sharedin, after that I lost all respect for the Narn.

    As for G'Kar taking Mordens off even if he knew what was really being offer. G'Kar would never have taken the offer, Why you ask, because he is a devout follower of G'Quan, and G'Quan was an enamy of the Shadows. If G"kar had found out he would have killed Morden right there in S1.
    The avalanche has already begun it is to late for the pebbles to vote.

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    • #3
      I don't think G'kar would have signed a deal with the Shadows on the basis that 1) he actually goes to Londo about the possibility of the return of the Great Enemy, saying that they may be a force that threatens "both their races", meaning he saw the Shadows worse then the Centauri, and because 2) G'kar or the Narn never really showed any intrest in the conquest of other races except for the Centauri (the only exception of this was the pilot, where G'kar was trying to sow chaos amoung the worlds, but that was far-gone by the time Season 1 came around).

      I think I felt sorry for the Narn early on just because the Centauri were destroying them from the get-go with Shadow help. I think the reasons the characters felt bad for the Narns in the show is because, as stated, they were suffering heavy, heavy civilian casualties; the Centauri were not. On that basis, I can certainly understand why our characters were sympathetic, I know I would be too.

      And remember: Delenn did know the Shadows were helping the Centauri during the whole Centauri-Narn War.

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      • #4
        I started to empathise with G'Kar when he realized that the new war wasn't just a continuation of the old fun and games that had kept a couple of generations of Narn and Centauri amused, but the first stage in a power-play by an older race.

        The Narn in general I didn't empathise with until they started to act as though they were part of something bigger than themselves - when they joined the Army of Light 9and especially after their "Pickett's Charge" in SD). Before that, they were just a bunch of whiney brats being reigned in by G'Kar.
        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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        • #5
          I started empathizing with the Narn right away, as they were subjugated by a more advanced race, but managed to drive them off.

          I didn't empathize with G'kar until Dust to Dust. Before he was too much of a prick, and he felt like one in The Coming of Shadows.
          Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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          • #6
            I started empathizing with G'Kar when he discovered Swedish Meatballs

            Actually, when Narn was hit with mass drivers.
            "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by NotKosh
              I started empathizing with G'Kar when he discovered Swedish Meatballs
              I like that so much I will steal it when the topic comes up again.
              I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

              Comment


              • #8
                For me Chrysalis was the first time. But even then there was futility in it, as if G'kar had been offered the same sort of opertunity Londo had at that moment in time, he probably would have taken it (hypothetically, not necessarily related to the Shadows, perhaps better weapons and ships for instance). Same sort of thing again in Coming and Twilight Struggle, only more so.

                When Dust to Dust came along, it turned the whole character - and me - completely upside down.

                Having gone from cold-blooded warlord to insightful, righteous, deferential revolutionary/prophet , he is now among my favorite B5 characters!

                As to the Narn not having no interest to attack other races besides the Centauri......

                Really for a society that hinges so heavily upon revenge and hatred, its not that big a step to take.

                Quote------------------------------------------------
                The way they were able to achieve independence was through a strong
                military mindset and sense of pride...which though useful then, has since
                become something other...something darker and more menacing. Still smarting
                from two centuries of occupation, they launched a major effort to build up
                their own forces. They strip-mined their economy to get their hands on the
                latest weapons tech, most of it illegally obtained. They began slowly to
                convince themselves that they had a Destiny among the stars...a destiny of
                conquest.

                And over the last few decades, they have been tentatively extending
                themselves, taking over unalied planets here and there on the fringe of the
                Narn system, small places that offered strategic and economic value, but which
                were too far away to fight for, and of too little importance to (in many
                cases) the Centauri republic, which was busy dealing with its own internal
                problems.

                The Narn Regime now is in many ways the X-factor, the new kid on the
                block with something to prove. They're growing awfully strong, awfully fast.
                They're cunning, and determined, and quite deadly.

                Which brings us to Ambassador Jackarr (pronounced JAH-karr), of the Narn
                Regime, married to a female war hero, whose fathers on both sides were also
                distinguihed veterans of a hundred campaigns. In the main, his task is to use
                the facilities of B5 wherever possible to Narn advantage == from arranging
                tech-smuggling to military objectives and so on -- while doing all possible to
                interfere with the basic purpose of the station, to create the peace. Peace
                is not in their best interests, though they give the opposite impression.
                They want to keep all sides divided and at each others throats so that they're
                occupied while the Narns grow and expand quietly in the background. The last
                thing they want is an alliance aimed against them before they're ready.


                One last note about Jackarr...I wanted to create someone specifically who
                folks would gradually come to expect is behind anything that goes wrong or
                afoul. "Oh, he's the bad guy." And to a large extent, for the first part, he
                will be...then something quite surprising will happen, and everything you
                THINK you know about Ambassador Jackarr will be turned completely upside down.
                We've all seen the SF standard of The Villain Who Chews Scenery...I wanted to
                take that and use it just long enough to get folks comfortable with the
                convention...then pull the rug out from under them.



                -jms 5/1/1992
                -------------------------------------------------------
                Last edited by CRONAN; 06-03-2004, 04:51 AM.

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                • #9
                  I started to sympathise with the Narn :

                  I forget the episode name, but it's the one where G'kars uncle, G'sten, sends his fleet of G'quan cruisers to launch an assault on the Centauri. (This is the catalyst for Lord Refa to begin the invasion of Narn)

                  But its G'sten and his fleet which get completely oblitorated by the Shadows, who are waiting for them. Ignoring G'kar's last minute desperate plees not to go, they are brutally masacred and you are left seeing the Narn in a totally different light. They are no longer the aggressors, and you are left feeling sorry for them. Not to mention the invasion of Narn begins soon after.

                  I started to empathise with G'kar :

                  After the invasion had taken place and Narn had surrendered. The most moving scene was when Londo announces that G'kar will no longer be ambassador and demands for him to be removed from the council chambers imediately.
                  Last edited by Vir; 06-03-2004, 08:36 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I started to sympathise with the Narn :

                    I guess there wasn't really any one scene or episode, but as G'Kars character grew and matured during S1 thru 3 I gained a better understanding of his people and their struggles and so the empathy came with it.

                    On the flipside, I was appalled with his attitude towards Londo in S4 (can't remember which ep) when Londo held out the olive branch in his attempt to focus them on their common cause alongside humans in freeing earth from Clark. Zero out of 10 for that one G'Kar, a bit short sighted - but you came through in the end!
                    Where are we going? And why are we in this hand basket?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vir
                      I started to sympathise with the Narn :

                      I forget the episode name, but it's the one where G'kars uncle, G'sten, sends his fleet of G'quan cruisers to launch an assault on the Centauri. (This is the catalyst for Lord Refa to begin the invasion of Narn)

                      But its G'sten and his fleet which get completely oblitorated by the Shadows, who are waiting for them. Ignoring G'kar's last minute desperate plees not to go, they are brutally masacred and you are left seeing the Narn in a totally different light. They are no longer the aggressors, and you are left feeling sorry for them. Not to mention the invasion of Narn begins soon after.

                      I started to empathise with G'kar :

                      After the invasion had taken place and Narn had surrendered. The most moving scene was when Londo announces that G'kar will no longer be ambassador and demands for him to be removed from the council chambers imediately.
                      That's all in The Long, Twighlight Struggle, which is one of, imho, one of the best episodes in the series.

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                      • #12
                        ''IMHO''? Translation?

                        Yes, the episode where Londo's arc reaches all-new lows. You really see it in his performance, esp when G'kar makes his statement in the council chamber.

                        Gives me goosebumps.
                        Last edited by CRONAN; 06-03-2004, 12:04 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CRONAN
                          ''IMHO''? Translation?
                          IMHO= In My Humble Opinion

                          i felt sorry for G'Kar when he sent that Narn ship to Z'ha'dum and it was destroyed and he knew full well what the implications of that meant for him and everyone else.
                          Keffer

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                          • #14
                            When I began to empathize with G'Kar was in The Coming of Shadows. In just one episode, G'Kar was ready to die while assainating the Centauri Emperor, turned around after receiving the message delivered by Dr. Franklin, offers Londo a chance at improved relations, finds out that thousands of his people have been killed by the Centauri and then, finally, has to restrain his rage and anger in the hope of getting help from the other races.

                            Unbelievably brilliant from both a writing and an acting view.

                            Jan
                            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                            • #15
                              I started empathizing with G'Kar and his people when the Narn homeworld was being bombed back to the stoneage and civilian casulities were mounting before the War with Centauri I thought the Narn were an aggressive people .

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