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So, back in 1992...

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    ah and five years later I come across this; so some of the guesses were correct (not sure why we didn't catch that one; this message is in the archives):

    Originally posted by jms
    The off-beat notion was Delenn going from male to female, and then having a relationship with the CO.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheFirstOne
    replied
    Ok, so I skipped a dew pages, sorry if my guesses have already been mentioned..
    1. Sinclair coming back for the "War Withour End" double ep.
    2. Kosh (i.e the Vorlons) turning out to be our "angels".
    3. I would like to say Kosh's death, but JMS didn't come up with that untill S3 so...
    4. Garabaldi's hair (Ivanova drops a line in a S4 episode I believe?)
    5. Vir being the one to kill emperor Cartagia, not Londo? Maybe not though...
    Hmm, guess I'll have to re-watch B5 now

    Leave a comment:


  • JariM
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow View Post
    For a SF TV show it is unusual but the policeman catching the bad guy whilst he is suspended is routine.

    Admiral Kirk went against Star Fleet in "The Search for Spock"
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088170
    Sorry for necromansing this thread but I don't think you can compare these things. Kirk did not destroy Federation ships. Sheridan and co. turned their back on their own government and killed loads of EF personell in the battle. That is something you don't see often even today in SF.

    Leave a comment:


  • glindros
    replied
    My money is still on the Delenn transformation.

    To my knowledge, even the good doctor has never pulled that off.

    Leave a comment:


  • colonyearth
    replied
    Like I told Jan....Sorry. Didn't mean to cause nobody no harm.

    CE

    Leave a comment:


  • luvB5
    replied
    Darn! That renders my (and Ivanova's) siggy non-operational.

    Leave a comment:


  • colonyearth
    replied
    BOOM!!!!!





    My head just exploded.

    CE

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    Originally posted by SpanishFan View Post
    I'm with Morden in this (come to think about it, that sounds kinda frightening, doesn't it?).
    I think he was refering to Delenn crossing genders.
    Except the original reference mentioned season 3/season 4, and Delenn was planned all long to cross gender/morph.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Dipper View Post
    According to "To dream in the city of sorrows" Sinclair got that scar when battling against shadow fighters near the time-distortion-weird-thingy. IIRC the scar's appearance was described almost exactly as it appears in the show.

    ip
    True, but this is much later. As is the new idea tha there was a "future that did not happen" like Ivanova's broadcast from the death-throes of B5 in WWE. In both cases, they could easily have been things added to cover the "future that did not happen" in the sense of the show's original plan.

    As pointed out above, this will be revealed in Volume 15 of the script books, now (hopefully) not far off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya View Post
    Seriously:
    It was a major character declaring independence from Earth... and it did have many ramifications.
    And really, did (would) you ever see that in another SF TV show?

    I think that was the twist.
    For a SF TV show it is unusual but the policeman catching the bad guy whilst he is suspended is routine.

    Admiral Kirk went against Star Fleet in "The Search for Spock"
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088170

    Leave a comment:


  • vacantlook
    replied
    Originally posted by Macbeth View Post
    Great work Vacantlook digging up those JMS posts.
    Reading the one that JoeD80 posted enticed me to see what else jms had posted about Sakai over the years. So, I say blame him.

    Leave a comment:


  • AaronB
    replied
    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya View Post
    Maybe he literally meant "the Major" Character: showing the face of Major Atumbe!!!
    Now that would have been a surprising twist!
    And here I thought it was going to be more screen time for the Zarg.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected]
    I've been trying to come up with a very off-beat plot turn to pull in
    seasons 3 or 4 (assuming we ever GET that far, again, I'm working all this out
    in advance and hoping for the best), and this morning I came up with something
    SO neat, SO unusual, I practically slipped in the shower. It's something that
    has never, EVER been done in an SF series involving a major character. And
    boy, will this have major ramifications! Too bad I have to wait so long to
    pull it off.
    Maybe he literally meant "the Major" Character: showing the face of Major Atumbe!!!
    Now that would have been a surprising twist!


    Seriously:
    It was a major character declaring independence from Earth... and it did have many ramifications.
    And really, did (would) you ever see that in another SF TV show?

    I think that was the twist.

    The only other possibility I think plausible would be Sinclair leaving around S3-S4 to become Valen, and Sheridan taking over. A second in command becoming the new leader is an unusual thing (replacing Capt. Pike does not count!). However, the only major ramification of that was that the war 1,000 years ago was won and not lost.

    I think it was the independence from Earth, not only a great twist, the three-parter where Sheridan declares B5 independent and the aliens help him against Earth capturing the station is one of the finest dramatic moments in SF TV history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Macbeth
    replied
    Great work Vacantlook digging up those JMS posts. It sure helps clarify and if I had thought about it longer - they all make perfect sense.

    Having said that, the 1992 plot, or even the 1995 plot (pre O'Hare leaving and Boxleitner joining) I think was still pretty different on the surface from what was eventually delivered. Not better, not worse simply different. We know that JMS is a master of switching and overlaying arcs on characters to get the story told (Lyta-Talia-Lyta) so while being different it may not be hugely so from a fundamental plot arc standpoint, but taking it to the level of an individual scene or character I still think is likely a mistake because it may have been a different character originally.

    One thing we do know is that the original plan was not for O'Hare/Sinclair to effectively disappear after season one and that externality moved some pretty big pieces around.

    Leave a comment:


  • vacantlook
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
    This has been stated as not being true at various points by jms. From a jms post 2/1/1997 (emphasis mine):

    Sinclair was never intended to go to Z'ha'dum.

    And it wouldn't have worked for Sakai to be the one who awoke
    the shadows and "died" at Z'ha'dum because *they were already awake* in
    the first season.
    People who try to lay the one line atop the other
    tend to forget this. We also get Garibaldi's mention of crawling out
    of the Martian desert in the very first episode...which tied into the
    whole Messages From Earth thread, putting the shadows at work for at
    least 2-3 years.
    To further quote the same point.

    jms on 3/31/1998

    No, for one simple reason.

    The Shadows were already on the loose in Season 1, if we recall correctly. Mr.
    Morden was running around, and the Shadows were cleaning Lord Kiro's clock and
    restoring the Eye to Londo.

    The mission to Z'ha'dum had already taken place, and the shadows were already
    on the move...so the scenario you suggest was simply not possible.
    jms on 12/19/1997

    BTW, the one big reason that Sakai could not have filled Anna Sheridan's role
    in awakening the shadows...and this is the one thing that everyone who
    advocates this theory tends to forget...is that they were *already up and
    awake* in the first season, as we saw in "Signs and Portents." They were up,
    around, and had had some time to build stuff up, reclaim some of their ships,
    and in other ways get organized and develop their contacts.

    Also, Morden was already working for them.
    jms on 7/20/1995

    Negative. That was never intended. Sakai would not have had this
    encounter with the shadows. And remember, we *saw them* in year one, so they
    were already out, about and awake. It's not just a matter of transposing
    names.
    On the possibility of a Sinclair/Delenn romance:

    jms on 4/11/1996

    ... Actually, the relationship with Sinclair and Delenn wasn't
    designed to be romantic; he was involved with Sakai, and would've
    stayed that way for the most part. The relationship you saw is not
    quite what you're thinking; there is a closeness, but not based on
    romantic feelings....

    Leave a comment:

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