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  • Crusade???

    Right i have a few questions

    (1) At what point did TNT interfere with production, and to hwat extent did they interfere???

    (2) There were two diiferent Uniforms, as TNT aired the episodes out of their intended sequence which one was the "original" uniform???

    (3) Did JMS ever discuss how the series would have progressed over the five years had it not been cancelled???

    (4) What was the primary reason for the cancellation, from what ive read Crusade was cancelled before a single episode aired. So raitngs couldnt have really been an issue could they???

    (5) JMS said NASA's JPL were consulted on B5 in order to make it realistic, was this the same case for crusade and if so how involved were they in production, ie designing of vessels etc???

    (6) and finally was there ever any insight into others that JMS and the production team considered for the main roles???

    Those of you who have read my other posts will know that the info provided is to go into the Crusade article on The Babylon Project (http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Crusade), so thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Originally posted by munnp001 View Post
    Right i have a few questions

    (1) At what point did TNT interfere with production, and to hwat extent did they interfere???
    That's not an easy question. For one thing, they vacillated about allowing any B5 cast to even guest star and they were the ones who insisted on the plague. First they wanted to jump right into the story after 'A Call to Arms' and then they mandated that JMS write 'War Zone' as a 'coming together' episode. The really egregious, contradictory nots began around the fifth episode shot, though.

    (2) There were two diiferent Uniforms, as TNT aired the episodes out of their intended sequence which one was the "original" uniform???
    They grey 'bellhop' uniforms were the original ones.

    (3) Did JMS ever discuss how the series would have progressed over the five years had it not been cancelled???
    Not in a lot of detail. We know that Dureena would have disappeared at some point for a few episodes and return with a sword and no memory of what had happened to her while she was gone. We know that the cure would have been found around the middle of the second season. We know that leftover Shadow technology would have played a part in at least the last episode of the first season.

    (4) What was the primary reason for the cancellation, from what ive read Crusade was cancelled before a single episode aired. So raitngs couldnt have really been an issue could they???
    Nope, not at all. TNT had realized that B5 wasn't increasing their viewers so they decided to wage a campaign of 'notes' making it impossible for JMS to deliver the show that they claimed they wanted. In this way they hoped to get out of the contract altogether.

    (5) JMS said NASA's JPL were consulted on B5 in order to make it realistic, was this the same case for crusade and if so how involved were they in production, ie designing of vessels etc???
    In designing vessels, I don't know. I know they were very instrumental in designing the look of the planets, though.

    (6) and finally was there ever any insight into others that JMS and the production team considered for the main roles???
    I have a memo from JMS to TNT that was with the treatment for 'A Call to Arms' where he suggested Andreas Katsulas for Galen and that they consider Tracy Scoggins and Michael York for the captain of the Excalibur. I don't recall any others but we may find out more when the Crusade script books come out.

    Hope this helps,

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      Yeh thanks that really helps.

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      • #4
        Just some other points/furthur questions:

        1. I know JMS started with the grey uniforms then switched to the black, and then had every intention to resume filming (had the show come back from hiatus) in the black. Which uniform did he prefer? Had all things been equal with the network, would he have continued with the grey?

        2. I remember reading JMS stating that the plague would have been cured by the end of season 3, but that would have made the excalibur renegades for some reason. The last two seasons would have delt with that.

        3. To my understanding the JPL had similar roles on both shows but, to my knowledge, their involvement was publiced more with crusade, as their logo was in the end credits of every episode in big red lettering on its own card. I don't remember anything like that in B5.

        4.
        Originally posted by Jan
        they vacillated about allowing any B5 cast to even guest star and they were the ones who insisted on the plague
        I had never heard that, but it makes sense. My understanding was that the only reason that the picked up season 5 was for a spin-off with a previously established fan base. They didn't really care about season 5, but when crusade came along that wanted something that they could control and JMS would not budge. After filming 6 episodes the show went on hiatus and JMS and TNT hashed it out and reached a workable agreement. During the filming of the next 7 episodes TNT came back with similar demands, which JMS felt violated the agreement they had just made. TNT, seeing that they couldn't control him, made completely ridiculous demands to force JMS into quitting and breaking the contract.

        Unless Jan can any verify this, please do not use me as a direct source. This information I obtained a while ago from researching this and other sites. I;m sure if you look hard enough you can find JMS' posts and quote the source.
        http://www.andrewcardinale.com
        @acardi

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JDSValen View Post
          1. I know JMS started with the grey uniforms then switched to the black, and then had every intention to resume filming (had the show come back from hiatus) in the black. Which uniform did he prefer? Had all things been equal with the network, would he have continued with the grey?
          My understanding is that one way or another, the crew of the Excalibur were going to end up in uniforms different from the ones they started in as a result of effects of the plot. The grey uniforms would be ditched when the ship went rogue. Upon request for a change in the uniforms by TNT, jms went ahead and brought in the new black uniforms earlier than he planned to without them being a result of the planned plot. My understanding is that jms didn't really end up liking the grey uniforms any more than Captain Gideon did, so he welcomed the earlier opportunity to change them. Of course the lovely TNT broadcast the episodes out of jms's planned order, so black-uniform episodes came before the grey uniform ones and jms then wrote a plot to explain the shift from black to grey, and a to-come "accident" with the laundry would take care of going from the grey back to black, but things ended up cancelled before that could happen.

          2. I remember reading JMS stating that the plague would have been cured by the end of season 3, but that would have made the excalibur renegades for some reason. The last two seasons would have delt with that.
          Again, I'm going off all of what I've read over the years, but my understanding is that the cure would have been found somewhere mid-to-late season two. The Excalibur going rogue would have been as a result of Gideon and crew clashing with Earth over Earth's black projects using leftover Shadow technology, I think.

          I had never heard that, but it makes sense. My understanding was that the only reason that the picked up season 5 was for a spin-off with a previously established fan base. They didn't really care about season 5, but when crusade came along that wanted something that they could control and JMS would not budge. After filming 6 episodes the show went on hiatus and JMS and TNT hashed it out and reached a workable agreement. During the filming of the next 7 episodes TNT came back with similar demands, which JMS felt violated the agreement they had just made. TNT, seeing that they couldn't control him, made completely ridiculous demands to force JMS into quitting and breaking the contract.
          At the Hawthorne High School Comic Convention, jms revealed the truth behind the cancellation of Crusade, which you seem to somewhat touch on. There, he said:

          JMS: I want the real truth to come out. Including the fact...I ran into some guys who worked for TNT about two years after Crusade went down. And they said, "Did you ever hear the rest of the story?" JMS: "What rest of the story?" TNT guys: "We found out, we did a research survey, a five year long study of our ratings. This was just after Crusade got going. And, we found out that the audience for B5 came for B5, then left afterward. And the TNT regular viewers didn't stick around for B5 and went away and came back. B5 wasn't adding to our viewer base." So...they decided to pull the plug on Crusade for that reason and use the money to buy another show. But they couldn't say that because they'd be in breach of contract with Warner Bros. So their job was to make it impossible for us so they could then say, "We aren't getting the show we want, our notes aren't being dealt with, therefore we aren't responsible, we're canceling the show, this is your nut Warner Bros., you take care of it." That is why all the notes became so egregious. If I had given them everything they wanted, they still would have pulled the plug. They just wanted out. Yeah, I want that information out there....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by vacantlook
            My understanding is that one way or another, the crew of the Excalibur were going to end up in uniforms different from the ones they started in as a result of effects of the plot.
            That's interesting . . . I know that he wrote in the switch, but I hadn't known that he had intended on it from the get-go . . . I had just thought that the uniform change was just something that happened as a result of a note from TNT. Personally it always seemed silly to me that they would have different uniforms than the rest of the EA. I know the whole "long range mission needs comfy-er uniforms" thing, but there was a B5 episode with an explorer class ship and they had the same uniforms as everyone else. I dunno . . . stuff like that always bugged me.

            Thanks for the explaination. I had never heard that story before, but it makes a ton of sense now. Even with everything I;ve read, I always felt that there was something missing . . . that must be it.
            http://www.andrewcardinale.com
            @acardi

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