Crusade: what really happened?

[Dr Maturin]

I am happy with the unaltered trilogy on DVD. If it was a concern to me and if I thought it was a possibility that they'd release a "cleaned up," anamorphic version in the future, I would not have spent my money on them and waited. Considering that twenty years ago we were watching crappy video tape, I have no room to complain. I just thank LFL for releasing them in any condition on DVD.

[KoshN]

Crusade: what really happened?

And here I opened this thread expecting to see something about Crusade! Silly me!

[raw_bean]

Lucas has always struck me as a man who archives EVERYTHING. I find it hard to believe that he doesn't have at least an intact print of each of the original trilogy carefully stored. If not, I guarantee that there are private collectors out there who have 35mm prints that could have been used.

That wasn't an impression I ever got. *shrugs*

As for private collectors' prints, surely they should be what's preserved as the 'historical document' bit rather than tracking them down and digitally manipulating them into a DVD release.

I've always argued that the original versions should be available for their place in our collective cultural history. These were films that changed how Hollywood made movies and how we the audience related to them. Also, they stand as historic documents on the state of visual effects at the time. The first one won an Academy Award and the other two were given special Oscars to let the other films released those years have a chance. I've always thought it was an insult to the technicians who busted their asses - go read about the early days of ILM - to do the things they did for Star Wars and have it become the phenomenon it did, only to have Lucas shrug it all off years later with an "Eh... It's not what I really had in mind."

See above.

And hard work by various people notwithstanding, I say that it's Lucas' prerogative to say things like that about his own Intellectual Property and films just as much as it is JMS' right to say (in his script books, for example) similar things about any aspect of B5, like replacing Stewart Copeland's score for The Gathering with Franke's.

(See the laboured attempt to include something vaguely on-topic? )

And given that laserdisc has a lower picture quality than DVD, but better than VHS, we should be upset that the DVD picture quality is not up to the standards possible with the medium. Heck, I've seen public domain DVD releases that have had better quality than the "Original Version" DVD release and coming from the man whose company gave us THX, that's unacceptable.

Well since they were being included as a special feature to appease certain fans rather than being versions of the film that Lucas himself still stands by, I can understand why the effort wasn't spent on them. From his perspective, the effort to clean them up was already spent on the films - and more besides - in producing the special editions.

True, but I think that what Lucas did here though, was almost a guarantee to please NONE of them. To my eyes at least, the recent "original versions" release was either bungeled by sheer laziness and lack of effort or a cynical cashgrab.

Personally I imagine it was something Lucas himself wasn't even really involved in. The odds are as likely that it was a cynical marketing exercise as that it was a token attempt to 'give the people what they want' despite Lucas' desire to have the Special Editions be the 'official' versions.

I can (as you have) only offer a limited personal perspective on how many people may or may not be pleased with these decisions, but I can guarantee at least one person who was happy with it: me. I'm very happy ('Jedi Rocks' musical number in ROTJ aside) with my special edition DVDs, and although I haven't bought them, appreciate the (token) gesture of appeasement of making some version of the originals available. One day when I'm feeling flush with money and bored, I may just buy them for the sake of comparison.

I don't want to think this, but its hard not to imagine Lucas and Rick McCallum sitting around going, "Awwww, just slap the old laserdisc transfer onto DVD. That'll shut `em for now. And then in a couple of years, we'll release a better restored version right before DVDs get phased out entirely in favor of that new high def technology that's coming out. What? They're two competing systems? Well, we'll release in both, but with different extras on each format. They'll buy both, those crazy kids."

That's a level of cynicism that IMO extends into paranoia. I never got the impression that Lucas is that greedy and malicious, just somewhat out of touch with a lot of his fans.

Though I don't have any big grievances with the way Lucas and McCallum are handling Star Wars as a franchise, for people that are and look for malicious motives I say: "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."

EDIT: As an addendum, what would you consider the 'original' versions? Even while it was still in theatres during the first run, the film was revised - things like Lucas' originally intended 'Episode IV: A New Hope' being added to the opening crawl, or the sound being remixed for stereo as well as mono (or vice-versa, can't remember the specifics) and tweaked.

[frulad]

In all fairness they're still maintaining that there's no original master of the non-special edition versions left,

Lucas has always struck me as a man who archives EVERYTHING. I find it hard to believe that he doesn't have at least an intact print of each of the original trilogy carefully stored. If not, I guarantee that there are private collectors out there who have 35mm prints that could have been used.

and that's why the versions they've released aren't cleaned up or anamorphic - apparently they were salvaged from a letterbox Laser Disc master someone found in the archives, and decided to release them due to the overwhelming demand from petulant fanboys who wanted the 'versions they remembered from childhood'.

I've always argued that the original versions should be available for their place in our collective cultural history. These were films that changed how Hollywood made movies and how we the audience related to them. Also, they stand as historic documents on the state of visual effects at the time. The first one won an Academy Award and the other two were given special Oscars to let the other films released those years have a chance. I've always thought it was an insult to the technicians who busted their asses - go read about the early days of ILM - to do the things they did for Star Wars and have it become the phenomenon it did, only to have Lucas shrug it all off years later with an "Eh... It's not what I really had in mind."

Except apparently, they're saying now they wanted those versions, but cleaned up, which would make them better looking than they were in the original cinema release in all probability.

And given that laserdisc has a lower picture quality than DVD, but better than VHS, we should be upset that the DVD picture quality is not up to the standards possible with the medium. Heck, I've seen public domain DVD releases that have had better quality than the "Original Version" DVD release and coming from the man whose company gave us THX, that's unacceptable.

And I would lay good money on a bet that if they'd been cleaned up, someone would've moaned about that.

I've no illusions about the cynical capitalism of LucasArts (I fell for the 'available on video for the last time in their original versions' line on one of the VHS releases that happened just before the announcement of the Special Editions), but on the flip side Lucas gets moaned at by fanboys whatever he does with Star Wars, there's simply no way of pleasing them all.

True, but I think that what Lucas did here though, was almost a guarantee to please NONE of them. To my eyes at least, the recent "original versions" release was either bungeled by sheer laziness and lack of effort or a cynical cashgrab.

I don't want to think this, but its hard not to imagine Lucas and Rick McCallum sitting around going, "Awwww, just slap the old laserdisc transfer onto DVD. That'll shut `em for now. And then in a couple of years, we'll release a better restored version right before DVDs get phased out entirely in favor of that new high def technology that's coming out. What? They're two competing systems? Well, we'll release in both, but with different extras on each format. They'll buy both, those crazy kids."

[WorkerCaste]

I agree. How many different times was the original Star Wars trilogy released? Beta, VHS (several times), Laser Disc, DVD (a couple so far) and now possibly Blue Ray and/or HD DVD. I think the public is getting a little fed up with it.

And it's up to each of us to stand strong in the face of such obvious ploys to part us from our money. Sure, I own the Laser Disc set, and yes I owned the movies in Beta. Sure, I had the VHS tapes and the first set of DVDs, but THAT'S where I draw the line!

[raw_bean]

Well Lucas shot himself in the foot with the original Star Wars trilogy DVDs trying to milk them for all their worth. First the special edition four-disc release, then the three-disc edition, then releasing them singly and including the original versions (which Lucas bogusly claimed no longer existed ) as an extra on disc two. Except releasing them without cleaning up the Prints and in non anamorphic widescreen. I reckon they were hoping to release a massive box sets of both trilogy's for the 30th anniversary but due to weak sales of the last editions no 30th anniversary release happened.

In all fairness they're still maintaining that there's no original master of the non-special edition versions left, and that's why the versions they've released aren't cleaned up or anamorphic - apparently they were salvaged from a letterbox Laser Disc master someone found in the archives, and decided to release them due to the overwhelming demand from petulant fanboys who wanted the 'versions they remembered from childhood'. Except apparently, they're saying now they wanted those versions, but cleaned up, which would make them better looking than they were in the original cinema release in all probability. And I would lay good money on a bet that if they'd been cleaned up, someone would've moaned about that.

I've no illusions about the cynical capitalism of LucasArts (I fell for the 'available on video for the last time in their original versions' line on one of the VHS releases that happened just before the announcement of the Special Editions), but on the flip side Lucas gets moaned at by fanboys whatever he does with Star Wars, there's simply no way of pleasing them all.

[Morden]

I'm not sure I could handle Jabba or a Taun-Taun (forgive the spelling) in Smell-O-Vision

Now, that may be a VERY good point...

[Truth66]

I'm not sure I could handle Jabba or a Taun-Taun (forgive the spelling) in Smell-O-Vision

[Joe Nazzaro]

I still have my VHS boxed set of the original trilogy. I refuse to buy another version until the holographic 3-D interactive version- in Smell-O-Vision.

[Truth66]

I agree. How many different times was the original Star Wars trilogy released? Beta, VHS (several times), Laser Disc, DVD (a couple so far) and now possibly Blue Ray and/or HD DVD. I think the public is getting a little fed up with it.

[princevintari]

I think the Star Trek/Star Wars model is becoming the norm. Now on HD-DVD! Now with never-before seen extras, including a vial of dirt from outside B5's Sun Valley studios! Packed with commentaries, including the third-season caterer and a guy who played a security guard in the background for two scenes. Not to mentione exciting previews for lots of upcoming Warner Bros DVDs! Start saving your money now, kids!

Well Lucas shot himself in the foot with the original Star Wars trilogy DVDs trying to milk them for all their worth. First the special edition four-disc release, then the three-disc edition, then releasing them singly and including the original versions (which Lucas bogusly claimed no longer existed ) as an extra on disc two. Except releasing them without cleaning up the Prints and in non anamorphic widescreen. I reckon they were hoping to release a massive box sets of both trilogy's for the 30th anniversary but due to weak sales of the last editions no 30th anniversary release happened.

[Triple F]

I think the Star Trek/Star Wars model is becoming the norm. Now on HD-DVD! Now with never-before seen extras, including a vial of dirt from outside B5's Sun Valley studios! Packed with commentaries, including the third-season caterer and a guy who played a security guard in the background for two scenes. Not to mentione exciting previews for lots of upcoming Warner Bros DVDs! Start saving your money now, kids!

Cynicism is such an unfortunate trait in one so young. The problem is û your right.

[KoshN]

Of course not but the studios would have to actually spend money this time round for there to be a Crusade HD release.

I doubt Crusade will even get a second pressing, let alone an HD/Blu-Ray release. Crusade doesn't have "Babylon 5" in its name, and so doesn't have that name recognition. For that reason alone, it would have sold less than the Babylon 5 season and movie sets. Then, there's the problem of it being an unfinished series, plus how TNT screwed with it, etc.

Warner Brothers spending money (Those first four words probably send a chill through Warner Brothers.) to make a widescreen HD/Blu-Ray version of Crusade? No way. Pigs will fly, first.

[Ellen]

Back Story

There's always a back story where Good Sci Fi is concerned. Usually the same one: the networks, the studio, or other "power that be" is afraid it won't make money so they "sand bag" it almost from the beginning.
This goes all the way back to the original Star Trek series.
For some reason these "powers" don't seem to be able to "get it"; and they are afraid no one else will either.
Sigh, maybe someday these execs could be genetically engineered; or implanted with a gene from some donor Sci fi fan to help with this unfortunate short coming.

[princevintari]

You don't think that the studios are seriously going to pass on double-dipping into our wallets, do you?

Of course not but the studios would have to actually spend money this time round for there to be a Crusade HD release.