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  • grumbler
    replied
    Ivanova's timeline, as far as I can make out, is something like this:

    2229: She is born.
    2235: She gets some sort of telepathic contact with her mom.
    2241: Her mom commits suicide (yeah, this make her twelve, not ten, but I don't recall the exact words she used - maybe "about ten?")
    2246 (maybe late): Gaiya Ivanov is killed. Susan plans to join Earthforce "in a few months" but overstates the immediacy for dramatic effect.
    2247: Susan joins Earthforce. The war ends before she can see service.

    All conjectural, of course. And based mostly on the fact that The Gathering takes place in 2257, "ten years after the Earth-Minbari War" with backtracking. I assume that the E-M war went between 2244 and 2247, with a year between the start and the period of human desperation ( the "they did this for two years" that Londo refers to). I think there is some evidence that the war started in 2245 but I cannot remember the details.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    So if I followed all that correctly, your answer to the question I asked is "operations officer"? would that be the same on a ship? what does an operations officer do exactly?
    The operations officer (I have been one in both a shore command and a ship) is responsible for the day-to-day operations of the ship/command from an operational but not administrative standpoint. It is usually a department head responsibility, overseeing communications, the watch room (or combat information center on a ship), navigation, and all watch standing personnel not assigned to the Engineering Department (which is autonomous). The operations officer is responsible most particularly for making sure the ship is where it is supposed to be when it is supposed to be. The operations officer is responsible, for instance, for assigning non-engineering watch standers to their duty rotations, and for overseeing the training both the individuals and the crew.

    Major Atumbe could well have been the operations officer for Babylon 5. He would have been highly pissed that Garibaldi installed and activated the cutout switch on external comms in "Severed Dreams!"

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    Obviously the military structure in the B5 universe has always been a tad hazy. So I will appeal to the opinions of the biggest and brightest B5 brainiacs...

    On an Earth Alliance ship, what do you call the third in command? And can you have an XO that is NOT the second in command? My research in real life military has left me a little confused about it because in some circumstances you can, some you can't. For example, I think in british navy there can be an XO who just is in charge of the paperwork...
    Ah, my favorite topic!

    Yes, in the RN you can have (on large ships) an XO not the second-in-command (the SIC is called "the Commander" in that case, IIRC).

    The third in command of an EA ship would probably (but only probably) be the Chief Engineer, if JMS followed the USN model, or the Operations Officer (if JMS followed the RN model, in which engineers are staff and not line officers and thus not eligable for command).

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  • nova
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Eeew!

    Jan
    Thought you would like that.

    Originally posted by Jan View Post

    WHAT?!?!?!You mean that the Universe doesn't revolve around JMSNews.com???

    I'm crushed...simply crushed...

    Jan
    Hahaha... I mean.. um... sure it does Jan. Sometimes when I point something out just to find some humor, fans can take it a little more seriously than I expect... get all defensive like I'm attacking the Great Maker or something. In truth, I think I have a good enough idea of his personality to know he'd get a chuckle out of it too. Little Ivanova in uniform... ordering people around... lol It's also fun to ask him difficult questions, just to see the creative explanation he always manages to come up with. Geniuses... they can drive ya crazy...

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    Yes, this is true. However, if she entered the EF at like 12... making Malcolm Biggs a big time cradle robber on top of his overall creepiness, that becomes a slight problem...
    Eeew!

    Does it REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? No not really. But it's awfully funny to think about.
    WHAT?!?!?!You mean that the Universe doesn't revolve around JMSNews.com???

    I'm crushed...simply crushed...

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • nova
    replied
    Originally posted by Number6 View Post
    I guess that particular sentiment is applicable to ever thread on this and every fan forum.
    Indeed. Afterall, if you can't laugh and have fun. What the heck is the point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Triple F
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    Yes, this is true. However, if she entered the EF at like 12... making Malcolm Biggs a big time cradle robber on top of his overall creepiness, that becomes a slight problem...

    Does it REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? No not really. But it's awfully funny to think about.
    I guess that particular sentiment is applicable to ever thread on this and every fan forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • nova
    replied
    Yes, this is true. However, if she entered the EF at like 12... making Malcolm Biggs a big time cradle robber on top of his overall creepiness, that becomes a slight problem...

    Does it REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? No not really. But it's awfully funny to think about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    Actually, I'd say Ivanova's past has a lot to do with the story.
    Sure, her past does matter -- a lot. But it's *what* happened that's important, not when. As long as we know that she remembers feeling her mother's love mind-to-mind it doesn't matter how old she was when she felt it. That's my only point.

    Jan

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  • nova
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Exactly. For the most part I miss this sort of thing because it simply has nothing to do with the story. Same thing with military ranks. I don't notice them because all I really need to know is who's higher or lower in rank than our characters. Other than that, the ranks are immaterial.

    Jan

    Actually, I'd say Ivanova's past has a lot to do with the story. The military ranks I asked about for a specific purpose. When I'm actually watching the show, I could care less.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    Splitting hairs, I know. :0)
    Exactly. For the most part I miss this sort of thing because it simply has nothing to do with the story. Same thing with military ranks. I don't notice them because all I really need to know is who's higher or lower in rank than our characters. Other than that, the ranks are immaterial.

    Jan

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  • nova
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Okay, I found where Susan tells Talia that her mother was on sleepers for ten years and in 'The Long Night' she tells Sheridan that she was "ten...maybe eleven" when her mother committed suicide. But in 'In the Beginning' Susan was definitely older than that:



    She also asks Ganya for his support when she signs up for Earthforce "in a few months".

    Which does beg the question of how Susan managed to have telepathic contact with her mother any time other than infancy but I can't remember where she says that she joined Earthforce the year after her mother's death. In 'And Now for a Word' she tells the reporter that after her brother's death she felt that she had to finish what he'd started but that the war was over before she saw any action.

    AH! I found it. In 'TKO' Rabbi Koslov tells Sinclair:


    So that's definitely a continuity error...unless Rabbi Koslov made a mistake . Well, JMS always said that he kept the continuity in his head and since he didn't write 'TKO' he probably forgot that line. The amazing thing is that there are so few of these.

    Jan

    The Rabbi is an old man and of course he could have made a mistake, (but can even his memory turn 6 or 7 years into 1??). I would dismiss the whole thing quite easily on those grounds and that TKO was not written by JMS if this involved only this episode. I don't remember the "maybe eleven" part in the Long Night. I'll have to go check.

    The odd thing with the In The Beginning script (which is what you're quoting, right?) is also incorrect. She was 17. Any older and the war would have been over before she signed on (which she states was 2247, the last year of the war). Splitting hairs, I know. :0)

    I checked the big B5 timeline on the net. Looks like they based all their info on this on season 1.

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  • RMcD
    replied
    Originally posted by Morden View Post
    Torturing your head is not worth it, because even the Great Maker obviously didn't torture his head too much when he thought about Earthforce's ranking system.
    Actually one of the things I like best about B5 is that the minutiae concerning things like technology, alien societies and military organisation are left so vague.

    All the background detail is just coherent enough that it serves the story, looks cool and doesn't fall apart under a certain level of scrutiny, but beyond that you are free to use your own imagination to fill in the gaps.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    I actually also noticed today the continuity issue with when Ivanova joined Earthforce. It seems her mother died when she was 10 (which means she never actually knew her OFF the sleepers), her brother a year later, and then she joined EarthForce. Which would have made her all of about 11 or 12... No wonder Andrei didn't approve.
    Okay, I found where Susan tells Talia that her mother was on sleepers for ten years and in 'The Long Night' she tells Sheridan that she was "ten...maybe eleven" when her mother committed suicide. But in 'In the Beginning' Susan was definitely older than that:

    INT. INTERVIEW ROOM
    A very spare room, white walls, a desk and two chairs, where a young SUSAN IVANOVA, age 18, is waiting as Ganya enters.
    She also asks Ganya for his support when she signs up for Earthforce "in a few months".

    Which does beg the question of how Susan managed to have telepathic contact with her mother any time other than infancy but I can't remember where she says that she joined Earthforce the year after her mother's death. In 'And Now for a Word' she tells the reporter that after her brother's death she felt that she had to finish what he'd started but that the war was over before she saw any action.

    AH! I found it. In 'TKO' Rabbi Koslov tells Sinclair:
    A great tragedy. And one for which I believe Susan blamed her father. A year later when her brother was killed in the Minbari War, Susan chose to join Eathforce against Andrei's wishes and the rift between them became greater still.
    So that's definitely a continuity error...unless Rabbi Koslov made a mistake . Well, JMS always said that he kept the continuity in his head and since he didn't write 'TKO' he probably forgot that line. The amazing thing is that there are so few of these.

    Jan

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  • Morden
    replied
    Originally posted by nova View Post
    *beats head against wall*

    Why couldn't Joe just pick a structure and stick with it? I realize that when the EA and EF were formed, ideas and hierarchies were drawn form military forces all over Earth. I get that, I do. *bows to JMS* But for the sake of everyone's sanity... This B5 universe makes my head feel ready to explode sometimes.
    Torturing your head is not worth it, because even the Great Maker obviously didn't torture his head too much when he thought about Earthforce's ranking system.
    Well, I can live with what we are given in the show.

    Originally posted by nova View Post
    I actually also noticed today the continuity issue with when Ivanova joined Earthforce. It seems her mother died when she was 10 (which means she never actually knew her OFF the sleepers), her brother a year later, and then she joined EarthForce. Which would have made her all of about 11 or 12... No wonder Andrei didn't approve.
    Man, I never realized that one, that would be a seriuos continuity glitch. Can anyone help us out here?

    Leave a comment:

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