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Group Watch: Chrysalis

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  • Group Watch: Chrysalis

    And so....it begins!

    This is really the defining moment where JMS says "okay...done introducing the show...moving on now." And as I watch it again, I think it takes the cake for best of Season 1, hands down. It keeps you gripping your seat the whole way through, and so much happens.

    We get the return of Morden, to see exactly what the Shadows can do with their firepower, Londo falling down the dark side, a dead president, a shot Garibaldi, Delenn's transformation, Sinclair proposing...hoo boy. Could any more plot be crammed into 42 minutes?

    The scenes are all jarringly emotional. It's interesting to note that this was filmed 12th out of the 22 episodes..so a lot actually hadn't happened yet. The post production on the shadows scenes must have been crazy.

    JMS also said that the minbari found the triluminary on a vessel a thousand years ago. Is there anything written about this that brings it back at some other point? Or did that remain a mystery?

    I'm sure I didn't cover a lot, but this is a crazy big episode to discuss. I'll leave it to you
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  • #2
    Originally posted by SmileOfTheShadow View Post
    JMS also said that the minbari found the triluminary on a vessel a thousand years ago. Is there anything written about this that brings it back at some other point? Or did that remain a mystery?
    Well, Babylon 4 was a vessel. And they found Valen on it. And Jeffrey Sinclair used the Triluminary to become Valen....

    Yeah, I think we know where it came from.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • #3
      yeah, the Triluminaries are a pradox and a creation of time itself. the Minbari found them aboard Babylon 4, Delenn then used it to help with her chrysalis, and then sent it back in time aboard Babylon 4 for the Minbari to find them (and Valen) all over again.

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      • #4
        Well as the future episode is called "War Without End" but as far as Chrysalis..still one of the greatest episodes of all time. With the dramatic music by Christopher Franke which is of course on either the first Volume or the episodic disc itself and watching President Santiago assassinated on Earth Force One to me is one of the most emotional episodes of all time. Goose bumps completely through my body when I see that scene. Garibaldi so much wanted to warn everyone about what was going to happen plus his best friend in TKO did say watch your back so in a way that was a foreshadow.

        And of course oviously seeing Deleen and Kosh to end the first season was quite something to see for the end of the first season as well. As stated before Chrysalis is still the watermark that ends the 1st season but also pushes the limits in JMS writing. As Sinclair says to end the season with a bang and foreshadow.."Nothing is the same anymore."

        This single episode actually got my wife to completely change her mind about B5. At first she still thought of B5 just a good show but after seeing Deleen going into her cocoon she kept asking me where's Deleen..where's Deleen and I kept having to tell her I can talk to you about the first season but I'm not going to say anything else because I can't give anything away.

        Great Job JMS A+++ episode one of the best of all time and a great first cliffhanger to really really start the series because the series really starts flying in 2nd season..As JMS has stated in the past the dramatic episodes increased each season (First=15%, 2nd=30%, 3rd=55%, 4th=70% and of course 5th season had about an 85% dramatic rating) Of course I can't remember exactly the numbers here but I remember I think reading at the lurkers page that he talks about how each season increases.

        Signs and Portents is over...The Coming of Shadows is next..

        Alex
        "The Babylon project was our last best hope for peace..It Failed...In the year of the shadow war it became something greater...Our last best hope for victory..the year is 2260..the place Babylon 5"--Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova (opening main title narration from B5)

        "Faith...Manages"--Delenn and Lennier from B5
        "Oh, boy, is this GReAT!!"--Stephen Furst as Dorfman (Flounder) from Animal House

        V--"For Victory. Go tell your friends"--Abraham Bernstein from V
        myspace.com-babylon5fan07

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        • #5
          Can't add much more, have to agree with what has already been said: Great episode, setting the tone for all the coming seasons, together with "Signs and Portents" and "Babylon Squared" the best episode of season 1.
          Always great to watch!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BabylonRebel
            ...the Minbari found them aboard Babylon 4, Delenn then used it to help with her chrysalis, and then sent it back in time aboard Babylon 4 for the Minbari to find them (and Valen) all over again.
            Actually, the set of triluminaries and the chrysalis device that Valen took with him back in time were not from Delenn after her use. They were given to Sinclair came from Zathras, who brought them from the Great Machine on Epsilon 3. After Sinclair went back in time, the Minbari still had their triluminaries and chrysalis device.

            Here is a rough triluminary and chrysalis device timeline (or timeloop, I guess one could say) that I made to visually represent their temperal existances. For a period, the triluminaries and the chrysalis device exist in two different places at the same time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Petrov! Petrov!

              Besides that I'd agree this is one of the best ever B5 episodes. While things certainly improved later there is something I like about the atmosphere of season one and this episode sums it very well. Not sure what you'd call it, maybe an "80's sci fi noir" style?
              Who are you?
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              • #8
                Originally posted by vacantlook View Post
                Actually, the set of triluminaries and the chrysalis device that Valen took with him back in time were not from Delenn after her use. They were given to Sinclair came from Zathras, who brought them from the Great Machine on Epsilon 3. After Sinclair went back in time, the Minbari still had their triluminaries and chrysalis device.

                A-ha!!! So my question wasn't stupid after all like I thought it was after Jan's reply lol

                That's really interesting about the % of dramatic episodes. I'd be interested to find that interview.
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                • #9
                  That's really interesting about the % of dramatic episodes. I'd be interested to find that interview.[/QUOTE]

                  It may be in one of the interviews on the B5 box sets as well. Again I can't remember 100% where I heard but I know JMS did say it somewhere. I may go back this week and go through the 5 seasons extra features and see if that's where I saw it but I know that that's how he planned the series by increasing the dramatic or story arc driven episodes vs. the so called fillers.

                  Alex
                  "The Babylon project was our last best hope for peace..It Failed...In the year of the shadow war it became something greater...Our last best hope for victory..the year is 2260..the place Babylon 5"--Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova (opening main title narration from B5)

                  "Faith...Manages"--Delenn and Lennier from B5
                  "Oh, boy, is this GReAT!!"--Stephen Furst as Dorfman (Flounder) from Animal House

                  V--"For Victory. Go tell your friends"--Abraham Bernstein from V
                  myspace.com-babylon5fan07

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Babylon5fan07 View Post
                    It may be in one of the interviews on the B5 box sets as well. Again I can't remember 100% where I heard but I know JMS did say it somewhere. I may go back this week and go through the 5 seasons extra features and see if that's where I saw it but I know that that's how he planned the series by increasing the dramatic or story arc driven episodes vs. the so called fillers.
                    This post seems to fit what you're thinking of.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Unfortunately, the late approvement of season 5 MIGHT have affected the "pretty much ALL arc episodes" part a little bit...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, all of the stand-alones from Season Four had been tossed out so any that JMS really wanted to tell ended up in Season Five. I'm just glad we got them!

                        Jan
                        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What I noticed only recently (like may be a year ago) in watching this episode was that it has an interesting foreshadowing of specific dialogue from In the Beginning. I don't know if I have mentioned it on the forum or not, but at the risk of repeating myself will mention it here.

                          Remember when Delenn goes to Kosh just before starting up the Chrysallis device? She tells him "I have come as I said I would. Kosh, I have great doubts. I must know if it's true. I must see with my own eyes." What "it" is isn't ever made clear. In response to her statement, though, Kosh leaves his encounter suit (we only see her reaction shot) and she then says "yes, thank you. Now I will keep the promise. Goodbye. You will not see me again as I am now."

                          So, what was "it?"

                          Fast forward to In the Beginning. Delenn is talking to Dukhat about the possibility that there are fake Vorlons. Dukhat tells here that "if you ever have any doubt, all you need do is look into the face of a vorlon. All doubt is erased, forever."

                          Again, we have the issue of doubt, and the issue of looking on a Vorlon and losing that doubt.

                          I think it was already clear in JMS's mind when he wrote Crysallis that Delenn had had that conversation with Dukhat. We knew that the plot of the series was predetermined, but this sheds some light on just how much detail JMS had already gotten into his head, when he wrote a rather cryptic bit of dialogue about the consequences of a specific conversation some three years before he filmed the conversation itself!

                          THAT is one of the things that makes the show so cool.
                          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jan View Post
                            This post seems to fit what you're thinking of.

                            Jan
                            That wasn't exactly where I heard or read the conversation but nevertheless thank you anyways at least that helps out a little bit. There are soo many shows out there that don't have a lot of dramatic episodes and that's what's refreshing about B5 because the intensity just increases each season. I'm officially half way through the 2nd season with my wife as we just finished All Alone In the Dark (I'll still add my 2 cents during each episode group watch) and it's really amazing how much more exciting the show is getting. During most of the first season my wife understood the show but it wasn't like OMG lets watch another show but now that my wife have watch Chrysalis, A Matter of Honor, Revelations and even The Coming of Shadows my wife yesterday asked me if we could watch another B5 episode after I come home from work.

                            B5 has to take a backseat until next week because she went down to LA for the Star Wars convention but it's comforting to know that she's slowly getting more and more hooked onto the show as the drama increases each episode. She loves Londo (not that there isn't anyone that doesn't) but watching and listening to her reaction about how Londo is changing among other things just tickles me to no end. I can't wait til next week to finish the 2nd season..I think she's going to have a wonderful treat on the remaining 11 episodes.

                            Alex
                            "The Babylon project was our last best hope for peace..It Failed...In the year of the shadow war it became something greater...Our last best hope for victory..the year is 2260..the place Babylon 5"--Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova (opening main title narration from B5)

                            "Faith...Manages"--Delenn and Lennier from B5
                            "Oh, boy, is this GReAT!!"--Stephen Furst as Dorfman (Flounder) from Animal House

                            V--"For Victory. Go tell your friends"--Abraham Bernstein from V
                            myspace.com-babylon5fan07

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On the "dramatic/arc-episodes"-topic again, what I very much like regarding Babylon 5 is that there is no clear cut between "arc" and "non-arc" episodes. What I meen is, even in the so called "fillers" (especially in seasons 1 and 2), there is so much foreshadowing, many hints are given, things are said that may become important much later (remember the classic "Watch your back"-phrase or our recent discussions concerning the early season 1 episodes). In the "X-Files" for example (which I've always been fond of), there is always (or at least most of the time) a clear line between arc and non-arc episodes, but in B5 you get much more of the feeling of an overall storyline.

                              @ grumbler:
                              I see what you mean, and I agree, but something in my mind rings a bell that Kosh's answer had also to do with the return of the Shadows, but I cannot remember right now when we see/hear this on screen...?!

                              Originally posted by Jan View Post
                              Yeah, all of the stand-alones from Season Four had been tossed out so any that JMS really wanted to tell ended up in Season Five. I'm just glad we got them!

                              Jan
                              So am I!

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