Group Watch: Signs and Portents

[moreorless]

What I liked about the raiders stuff is that we'd been given the impression they were going to be the stock villians then suddenly they get wiped out in the blink of an eye.

[RolexSub]

Forgot How Great This Ep Is

Minus the "generic" raider stuff, a truly awesome episode no doubt

[Dipper]

Did we see the whole battle? Or just a snapshot of it? B5 is notorious from not really throwing us into a whole battle and kinda a "sidelines view" of things.

Well, had it not been for the "flight down the gauntlet"-theme in the end, I could've accepted that, but Sinclair's idea was for alpha wing to drive them down the axis of B5, and then to get the delta wing in and splash all the remaining raiders in one move. So there really isn't much room for leaving out something. It was pretty straight forward.

On a side note, I really loved the tactics involved in season 1 battles. Towards the end they were just dogfights, but in S1 they really thought them through.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Something's always been bothering me with this episode. In the aftermath Garibaldi says that alpha this and that was able to bail out in time, but Delta nine didn't make it. IIRC delta wing was with Ivanova and they didn't join the fight until the very end, when they were slaughtering the Raiders. Now, how on earth did that dude get himself killed, when the enemy doesn't ever fire back ?

Guess he could've collided with B5's solarpanels or something ,)

-Dip

Did we see the whole battle? Or just a snapshot of it? B5 is notorious from not really throwing us into a whole battle and kinda a "sidelines view" of things.

[Dipper]

Something's always been bothering me with this episode. In the aftermath Garibaldi says that alpha this and that was able to bail out in time, but Delta nine didn't make it. IIRC delta wing was with Ivanova and they didn't join the fight until the very end, when they were slaughtering the Raiders. Now, how on earth did that dude get himself killed, when the enemy doesn't ever fire back ?

Guess he could've collided with B5's solarpanels or something ,)

-Dip

[RMcD]

I think this would almost be a flawless episode, if it wasn't for one thing that niggles me, and that's the atrocious where's-my-paycheck performance of the guy who plays 'number 6', the raider captain. I've seen him in other things, so I know he can act if he wants to.. Such a contrast with Ed Wasser, who was perfect casting and brilliant throughout.

As far as pivotal moments go, they don't come bigger than this. Possibly the most fateful words ever uttered by any character in B5 are G'Kar's 'I don't know. As long as my homeworld's safety is guaranteed, I don't know that it matters.' How different things might have been if he'd only been capable of thinking beyond crushing the Centauri..

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Or...check to see if JMS has already answered a question about it.



Jan

but..that's way too simple of an answer!!!! I like Fred's conspiracy theory better. Maybe I'll buy the rights to b5 books and write one about it lol.

[Jan]

Thanks for your take on the triangles Fred...maybe I'll ask JMS over on the newsgroup.

Or...check to see if JMS has already answered a question about it.

It's something the Grey Council have that allows them to sense
the arrival of the Shadows and their minions.

Jan

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Yeah I'd say it was a bit more of a "shock" episode at the time, really altered my whole view of the series as up until that point I'd thought it was going to be mostly about the Minbari/Sinclair connection.

Morden's questions to Londo and G'kar are IMHO one of the biggest turning points of the entire series and not just due to the choice he made. Before that Londo's opinion of the Centurai's decline could just have been a "A washed-up old republican dreaming of better days" and G'Kars dislike of the Centurai could have been as much political games as actual hatred.

Yup. The shock. When you see this episode for the first time it clicks that "here's where the story's really going to take off. We're done with the introduction now!" A lot of turning points in this episode, and it really does foreshadow what's to come.

Thanks for your take on the triangles Fred...maybe I'll ask JMS over on the newsgroup.

[moreorless]

Upon watching this again, I actually don't think it's one of my favorite eps of B5 Season 1 like I originally thought it was.

Yeah I'd say it was a bit more of a "shock" episode at the time, really altered my whole view of the series as up until that point I'd thought it was going to be mostly about the Minbari/Sinclair connection.

Morden's questions to Londo and G'kar are IMHO one of the biggest turning points of the entire series and not just due to the choice he made. Before that Londo's opinion of the Centurai's decline could just have been a "A washed-up old republican dreaming of better days" and G'Kars dislike of the Centurai could have been as much political games as actual hatred.

[FredScuttle]

I believe the Minbari with the Triangle symbol was going to be one of the Grey Councils ' task-do'ers ' for lack of a better name. Kind of like a small band of CIA operatives. Never leaving their Star Ship - they'd need 'eyes' and 'ears' to operate for them - and given the mindset of the council - I'm sure they would NEVER use rangers. Even the Minbari ones - while loyal - would be in contact with Humans.

And the more insular and paranoid the council was becomming they probably planted agent 3-sides to keep Delen on her toes. 'HE MUST NEVER KNOW!!!!'......

Or not - just my random musings - not read thay anywhere - just another thing JMS could have thrown at Delen to deal with......

[SmileOfTheShadow]

We're finally getting into the arc (yay!) and I think this may be where I will start my co-worker James watching the show because the payoff can be seen immediately and I don't want him to lose interest. I've been telling him "B5 is better than battlestar by leaps and bounds.." and he's very skeptical, so I don't think I can start him sooner.

Upon watching this again, I actually don't think it's one of my favorite eps of B5 Season 1 like I originally thought it was. I really enjoyed eps like "Mind War" and "By Any Means Neccessary" (which I skipped for discussion for time's sake) more, but this one does have a lot of important implications.

We get to see Centauri culture in this one..and the script book commentaries on the hair made me laugh very hard. JMS must have been pretty bored while writing script book 2..it's all over the place, but very amusing.

One thing I never understood with Delenn...why the triangle on the forehead? Does that have some special power or mean anything? I know Minbari are obsessed with triangles and 3s.

Also..we meet Morden, the shadows..just way too mucch to talk about in one post with this episode. Ed Wasser's acting is brilliant, of course. So creepy the way he smiles...so...used car salesman like. Used alien tech salesman?

I like how right away Morden knows the Narn and Minbari are not going to be useful to the Shadows cause and is very pleased with the Centauri reaction to his question "What do you want?" Poor Londo, so easy to manipulate. I already feel sad for him this early on.

And again, we have ANOTHER prisoner reference (JMS must have been watching it a lot about that time I guess haha), with the raider on B5 being "Six."

I hope you guys have watched the prisoner. Definitely worthwhile. So's this episode