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Group Watch: The Gathering (DVD Movie)

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  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler View Post
    Another point I would make is that the filmed version (even the first one) is so much better than the writers draft script in the script books. JMS had developed as a writer between finishing the writers/sales draft and actually doing the pilot. The shift from the shapeshifter being an alien critter to a Minbari saboteur was pretty key, and Kosh's "life-mate" really only existed for a single scene.

    That left the absurdity of G'Kar (of all "people") being accepted without question as the one able to cast the Voron vote in the council, of course, but one cannot make an omelet without breaking a few logical eggs.
    Yeah ,that makes a really good point. I definitely think JMS grew a lot in this process, and throughout the series as a whole even. It'd be impossible not to when writing that many stories every year haha.

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  • Garibaldi's Hair
    replied
    Originally posted by DeMonk View Post
    I didn't like Steward Copeland's music either but I still haven't found the Franke version. Is it actually available in Region 2?
    I have a feeling that the original no-frills disc was the re-editted version (but I bought R1 in order to do my bit for the cause so can't say for certain).

    The R1 movie boxset also has it, although R2 doesn't (that still bugs me!). However, I assume the Complete B5 Universe set has it. That, however, would be an expensive way to get one movie.

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  • DeMonk
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow View Post
    Note: Music CDs are not area coded.
    Well, I'd like to see you watch the DVD with Copeland's music and listen to Franke's CD meanwhile. Filmmusic is somewhat integrated in the movie.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Another point I would make is that the filmed version (even the first one) is so much better than the writers draft script in the script books. JMS had developed as a writer between finishing the writers/sales draft and actually doing the pilot. The shift from the shapeshifter being an alien critter to a Minbari saboteur was pretty key, and Kosh's "life-mate" really only existed for a single scene.

    That left the absurdity of G'Kar (of all "people") being accepted without question as the one able to cast the Voron vote in the council, of course, but one cannot make an omelet without breaking a few logical eggs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    Originally posted by DeMonk View Post
    I didn't like Steward Copeland's music either but I still haven't found the Franke version. Is it actually available in Region 2?
    Note: Music CDs are not area coded.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lope de Aguirre
    replied
    Originally posted by DeMonk View Post
    I agree with you there. The assassin was probably casting doubts on Lyta's character because he was afraid she might actually see through him.

    I didn't like Steward Copeland's music either but I still haven't found the Franke version. Is it actually available in Region 2?
    I think not - go buy the RC1 one.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeMonk
    replied
    Originally posted by vacantlook View Post
    I'd have to watch it again to sure up my memory, but I'm pretty sure that when we see Lyta and G'Kar together when G'Kar mentions the "complications" that it wasn't Lyta, it was the Minbari assassin using the changeling net to look like her.
    I agree with you there. The assassin was probably casting doubts on Lyta's character because he was afraid she might actually see through him.

    I didn't like Steward Copeland's music either but I still haven't found the Franke version. Is it actually available in Region 2?

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    [QUOTE=grumbler;36898]
    It is rather peculiar that G'Kar would one minute be trying to convince Delenn that Londo had try to assassinate Kosh, and then shortly thereafter try to convince her that it was Sinclair! Despite this clear evidence that he is just playing games, she abstains from the vote to indict.
    [QUOTE]

    Indeed. G'kar over the seasons seems to undergo more changes as a character than anyone else in the show, in my opinion. He starts out as just this hostile, abrasive lizard thing, which gets a little toned down as season one goes on, but in the first episode it's especially clear. We don't really get to see the good in him until later. Such an interesting character, and great actor.

    Jon

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by vacantlook View Post
    I'd have to watch it again to sure up my memory, but I'm pretty sure that when we see Lyta and G'Kar together when G'Kar mentions the "complications" that it wasn't Lyta, it was the Minbari assassin using the changeling net to look like her.
    Of course! That makes sense. The fake Lyta appears in Medlab shortly thereafter.

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  • moreorless
    replied
    Originally posted by SmileOfTheShadow View Post
    I must say though, what strikes me so much about this episode (while reading along with the scriptbook of course) is how much changed in the process and how much further changed as it went to series. Comparing the pilot to something like Encounter at Farpoint, the TNG pilot, I felt like the show really didn't get much of a makeover between the pilot and the actual series. Babylon 5 seemed to work out the kinks.
    I'd say that ended up being a very big positive as however much a writter may plan theres nothing like actually filming something to see what works and what doesnt.

    TNG was stuck trying to recreate the original series adverturous tone for almost two seasons before Picard and Data really stepped out as moral centers to build stories around. While B5 might not have rushed out of the gate I'd say that bar the Sinclair/Talia changes JMS had a much better idea the direction he wanted to take each character.

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  • vacantlook
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler View Post
    I really would like to find out what JMS had in mind when he set up Lyta as one of the bad guys. She had met with the fake Varner "a lot" acording to Garibaldi, and then met secretly with G'Kar, who told of of unspecified "complications." None of that was in the script in the script book.
    I'd have to watch it again to sure up my memory, but I'm pretty sure that when we see Lyta and G'Kar together when G'Kar mentions the "complications" that it wasn't Lyta, it was the Minbari assassin using the changeling net to look like her.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by RMcD View Post
    It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?
    I think it is a misunderstanding that the Vorlons are "energy beings." I think they can take on various levels of corporality as desired. Kosh is "solid" enough to catch Sheridan in "The Fall of Night" and he always opens his encounter suit rather than flowing through it (even though he and Kosh 2 later flow through the skin of B5).

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  • grumbler
    replied
    I am always a bit shocked when I see this episode at how crude so much of it was (the guns! the makeup! ). It still bugs me a bit that the Changeling Net could fool a Vorlon, and it bugs me that Lyta didn't scan Sinclair to prove that he didn't do it. The show had some plot loopholes, all right.

    However, the show has a certain rustic charm, knowing as we do (and the makers did not) what is coming down the pike.

    I had more or less forgotten Londo's speech to Garibaldi. It seems out of line with what we discover later about the power of the Centauri. Twelve worlds? Surely that cannot be true, unless planets are very, very scarce or the 12 they have are unusually well-developed for colonies, because they write off one of them in the next episode.

    I am assuming that Takashima (under the control of her artificial personality) was briefing G'Kar on what to say in the Council meeting, because G'Kar knew that Carolyn Sykes had just been through the Damocles sector, even though he himself didn't know that the poison used on Kosh came from there until told by Kyle at the hearing, and wouldn't have known the flight plan of Catherine's ship by heart.

    It is rather peculiar that G'Kar would one minute be trying to convince Delenn that Londo had try to assassinate Kosh, and then shortly thereafter try to convince her that it was Sinclair! Despite this clear evidence that he is just playing games, she abstains from the vote to indict.

    I really would like to find out what JMS had in mind when he set up Lyta as one of the bad guys. She had met with the fake Varner "a lot" acording to Garibaldi, and then met secretly with G'Kar, who told of of unspecified "complications." None of that was in the script in the script book.

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair View Post
    But that is because Encounter at Farpoint wasn't a pilot episode at all ... it was simply the first two episodes of season one of TNG. They were already committed to making the series and this was the beginning of it.

    The Gathering, by contrast, was a genuine pilot in the sense of "let's make a movie and see how it goes before committing to a series". The time lag between TG airing and the series being commissioned meant that, among other things, Johnny Sekka (Kyle) had pretty much retired due to his health, and Tamlyn Tomita (Takashima) was getting involved in movies and they decided to go with someone else.
    Ahh well that makes a lot more sense. I didn't know that about TNG.

    Originally posted by RMcD
    I think the early B5 promotional flyer (which you can see eg. here http://www.zteamproductions.com/protob5.html) is a fascinating guide to some aspects of the Gathering.

    For example, I think it explains the references to Kosh's hands and face (if this was the image that JMS had in mind when he wrote the script, then maybe the Vorlon costume was altered at a very late stage prior to filming). It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?
    That's a great flyer, thanks for that info! I think a lot of alterations occured, but I don't think that it was covered in the scriptbook about Kosh being poisoned and how that would make sense. I didn't read the summary before watching (which i should have), and haven't read that article in a good half a year heh.

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  • RMcD
    replied
    I think the early B5 promotional flyer (which you can see eg. here http://www.zteamproductions.com/protob5.html) is a fascinating guide to some aspects of the Gathering.

    For example, I think it explains the references to Kosh's hands and face (if this was the image that JMS had in mind when he wrote the script, then maybe the Vorlon costume was altered at a very late stage prior to filming). It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?

    Leave a comment:

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