Group Watch: The Gathering (DVD Movie)

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Ahem...if you would all kindly open the first volume of your scriptbooks and pop in the dvd, we shall begin.

I'm not exactly sure how to pace these yet, so I'm going to wait for a good amount of replies before moving on. As TLT approaches, I might start putting groups of episodes together, depending on how things go.

So tonight, let's start with The Gathering. Feel free to watch with commentary or without, whichever you prefer. And discuss!

[OmahaStar]

Are you wanting to have everyone do this group watch thing at the same time? If so, you may want to give a little more notice than this. I'm reminded of my cat, who suddenly decides she wants to be in another room now! lol ... Maybe give a few days notice, and set it up as a recurring thing. Might get a little more response. Or not. I dunno.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Are you wanting to have everyone do this group watch thing at the same time? If so, you may want to give a little more notice than this. I'm reminded of my cat, who suddenly decides she wants to be in another room now! lol ... Maybe give a few days notice, and set it up as a recurring thing. Might get a little more response. Or not. I dunno.

No no, I'm just posting up the topic tonight, watch it sometime in the next couple of days, post your thoughts and we'll see where this goes. Sorry for the lack of clarification. I think it'd be too much of a hassle to try to get evetryone to watch something at the exact same time.

[DeMonk]

I can join you after the easter holidays. I'm off to mam so, no internet and -horror of horrors - no DVD-player.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

I can join you after the easter holidays. I'm off to mam so, no internet and -horror of horrors - no DVD-player.

Great. I'll keep this first one up through tuesday, but will move faster on subsequent ones.

[grumbler]

Great. I'll keep this first one up through tuesday, but will move faster on subsequent ones.

What a great idea! I cannot watch tonight, but will do so tomorrow (if my time is my own) and try to respond.

I liked the epdis discussions on B5TV but always felt out of kilter. By all means, let us prepare for TLT by going through what we loved in the past...

OK, so "love" isn't necessarily what we feel for TG, but maybe 'respect" will do!

[DGTWoodward]

Ahem...if you would all kindly open the first volume of your scriptbooks and pop in the dvd, we shall begin.

I'm not exactly sure how to pace these yet, so I'm going to wait for a good amount of replies before moving on. As TLT approaches, I might start putting groups of episodes together, depending on how things go.

So tonight, let's start with The Gathering. Feel free to watch with commentary or without, whichever you prefer. And discuss!

Either version?

[raw_bean]

Count me in.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Well then...I watched the version that was included in the movie boxed set, and as I recall, there isn't too much of differences other than like an overdubbing of Takashima's lines or whatnot, right? I forget that whole discussion.

I must say though, what strikes me so much about this episode (while reading along with the scriptbook of course) is how much changed in the process and how much further changed as it went to series. Comparing the pilot to something like Encounter at Farpoint, the TNG pilot, I felt like the show really didn't get much of a makeover between the pilot and the actual series. Babylon 5 seemed to work out the kinks.

A lot was left out from the script of this one when it actually got filmed, which I think was actually for the better. I didn't really see any lines/scenes that would have made it too much better. Though now that I've watched the show a few times, it is exciting to see how much gets tied in later on in the series. Damn good writing Mr. JMS.

The other big differences are obviously in the costuming. G'Kar, Londo, and Delenn really look not-so-sharp compared to later on, and I realize that it's due to budget and time constraints which get worked out later on. But it's still shocking to watch.

Then of course...it's always curious to find out what happened to the doctor (I can never remember his name heh) and Takashima...are they mentioned in any of the books? I seem to vaguely remember them being mentioned in the series a little bit, but I forget.

But yes, there is a lot of nice set up that gets ignored for the next few episodes as B5 tries to establish itself in a "get-to-know-the-characters" episodic kind of way that isn't indicative of the rest of the show. I think after this ep, Vorlons aren't heard from for quite awhile. And I always miss Lyta until she shows up again.

The episode does its job well though, I think. It establishes Babylon 5..why there's 5...and why this one's gonna be different than the others, which is partially due to its commander, of course, who comes out right out of the shoot as capable and ready to take on any threat that he sees.

So yeah..your thoughts


Jon

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Comparing the pilot to something like Encounter at Farpoint, the TNG pilot, I felt like the show really didn't get much of a makeover between the pilot and the actual series.

But that is because Encounter at Farpoint wasn't a pilot episode at all ... it was simply the first two episodes of season one of TNG. They were already committed to making the series and this was the beginning of it.

The Gathering, by contrast, was a genuine pilot in the sense of "let's make a movie and see how it goes before committing to a series". The time lag between TG airing and the series being commissioned meant that, among other things, Johnny Sekka (Kyle) had pretty much retired due to his health, and Tamlyn Tomita (Takashima) was getting involved in movies and they decided to go with someone else.

[RMcD]

I think the early B5 promotional flyer (which you can see eg. here http://www.zteamproductions.com/protob5.html) is a fascinating guide to some aspects of the Gathering.

For example, I think it explains the references to Kosh's hands and face (if this was the image that JMS had in mind when he wrote the script, then maybe the Vorlon costume was altered at a very late stage prior to filming). It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?

[SmileOfTheShadow]

But that is because Encounter at Farpoint wasn't a pilot episode at all ... it was simply the first two episodes of season one of TNG. They were already committed to making the series and this was the beginning of it.

The Gathering, by contrast, was a genuine pilot in the sense of "let's make a movie and see how it goes before committing to a series". The time lag between TG airing and the series being commissioned meant that, among other things, Johnny Sekka (Kyle) had pretty much retired due to his health, and Tamlyn Tomita (Takashima) was getting involved in movies and they decided to go with someone else.

Ahh well that makes a lot more sense. I didn't know that about TNG.

I think the early B5 promotional flyer (which you can see eg. here http://www.zteamproductions.com/protob5.html) is a fascinating guide to some aspects of the Gathering.

For example, I think it explains the references to Kosh's hands and face (if this was the image that JMS had in mind when he wrote the script, then maybe the Vorlon costume was altered at a very late stage prior to filming). It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?

That's a great flyer, thanks for that info! I think a lot of alterations occured, but I don't think that it was covered in the scriptbook about Kosh being poisoned and how that would make sense. I didn't read the summary before watching (which i should have), and haven't read that article in a good half a year heh.

[grumbler]

I am always a bit shocked when I see this episode at how crude so much of it was (the guns! the makeup! ). It still bugs me a bit that the Changeling Net could fool a Vorlon, and it bugs me that Lyta didn't scan Sinclair to prove that he didn't do it. The show had some plot loopholes, all right.

However, the show has a certain rustic charm, knowing as we do (and the makers did not) what is coming down the pike.

I had more or less forgotten Londo's speech to Garibaldi. It seems out of line with what we discover later about the power of the Centauri. Twelve worlds? Surely that cannot be true, unless planets are very, very scarce or the 12 they have are unusually well-developed for colonies, because they write off one of them in the next episode.

I am assuming that Takashima (under the control of her artificial personality) was briefing G'Kar on what to say in the Council meeting, because G'Kar knew that Carolyn Sykes had just been through the Damocles sector, even though he himself didn't know that the poison used on Kosh came from there until told by Kyle at the hearing, and wouldn't have known the flight plan of Catherine's ship by heart.

It is rather peculiar that G'Kar would one minute be trying to convince Delenn that Londo had try to assassinate Kosh, and then shortly thereafter try to convince her that it was Sinclair! Despite this clear evidence that he is just playing games, she abstains from the vote to indict.

I really would like to find out what JMS had in mind when he set up Lyta as one of the bad guys. She had met with the fake Varner "a lot" acording to Garibaldi, and then met secretly with G'Kar, who told of of unspecified "complications." None of that was in the script in the script book.

[grumbler]

It also suggests that Vorlons were originally going to be corporeal beings, which would make a lot more sense of the whole poisoning thing. Does this get covered in the scriptbook?

I think it is a misunderstanding that the Vorlons are "energy beings." I think they can take on various levels of corporality as desired. Kosh is "solid" enough to catch Sheridan in "The Fall of Night" and he always opens his encounter suit rather than flowing through it (even though he and Kosh 2 later flow through the skin of B5).

[vacantlook]

I really would like to find out what JMS had in mind when he set up Lyta as one of the bad guys. She had met with the fake Varner "a lot" acording to Garibaldi, and then met secretly with G'Kar, who told of of unspecified "complications." None of that was in the script in the script book.

I'd have to watch it again to sure up my memory, but I'm pretty sure that when we see Lyta and G'Kar together when G'Kar mentions the "complications" that it wasn't Lyta, it was the Minbari assassin using the changeling net to look like her.