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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by argonnj View Post
    Plot device, nothing more. Cortez could have exited any time, but then Keifer would have never encountered the shadow vessel. Just part of the frustration when watching sci fi shows. Writers often ignore the simple solution to steer the story line.
    Mere supposition. Suppose that the ship in hyperspace needs to fix itself relative to real space before it can open that jump point in real space? That kinda makes sense to me, and explains why exploration ships didn't simply jump blind as a matter of course (and also why exploration took place along the fringes of known space, because thsose were the areas within the beacon range of the existing jump gates so such a fix could be established). The show says Cortez would be lost in hyperspace (not that it would jump into real space at some random location, but that it would be lost in hyperspace as happened before). Rather than simply dismissing the story's premise (and thus by implication the premise of all the stories and thus the entire canon) as mere plot devices, why not play along with the supposition that what the show says is true, within the context of the show, and have fun playing with that?

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  • rallytbk
    replied
    Originally posted by B5_Obsessed
    Isn't it amazing the quality of answers you get around here?

    I don't think I can add much, except to agree with GH that the hyperspace network is probably limited and may only correspond to a small part of the galaxy.
    I agree, I never gave it much thought... But if I were to look for answers just to peek my curiosity, all your guesses are the reason why I like this site.

    Keep them coming.

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  • therichieboy
    replied
    I would have thought that if the Earth Alliance can have realtime conversations across however many lightyears on the gold channel then they'd have the technology to transmit hyperspace beacon signals deep into space, beyond the physical limits of the jumpgate network.

    I'm assuming there would have to be some kind of link between the real space signal and hyperspace so that hyperspace drif wouldn't affect the position the signal is coming from (if the beacon is physically located in real space).

    Does that sound plausible? I'm typing in a rush- using a work PC and the boss is 'hovering'.
    Last edited by therichieboy; 02-20-2007, 07:15 AM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by argonnj View Post
    Plot device, nothing more. Cortez could have exited any time, but then Keifer would have never encountered the shadow vessel. Just part of the frustration when watching sci fi shows. Writers often ignore the simple solution to steer the story line.
    The Cortez had a power problem *and* the navigation system was shot. From dialogue, it would have taken at least 48 hours before they could have tried to jump. They got in contact with B5 long before they were faced with the issue of trying to make a blind jump out of hyperspace. Sheridan and his crew didn't have enough information about the damage to just wait and hope for the best.

    Jan

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  • argonnj
    replied
    If a beacon were not necessary, the Cortez could have exited hyperspace at any time, maybe lost a billion light years from home. But they would not be lost forever in hyperspace, which appears to be the fate of ships losing the lock-on. The hyperspace engine must 'need' a beacon lock-on nearby to work at all.

    Plot device, nothing more. Cortez could have exited any time, but then Keifer would have never encountered the shadow vessel. Just part of the frustration when watching sci fi shows. Writers often ignore the simple solution to steer the story line.

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  • Radhil
    replied
    The Cortez had a power plant problem. The jump drive requires a large amount of power. The Cortez wasn't doing nuttin' anytime soon.

    JMS had a few posts out there I found on Midwinter that roughly said the Cortez could've eventually jumped out after repairing itself but by that time (a) it would have lost all hyperspace reference and have no idea where it's jumping out to and (b) wouldn't have had the computational gear to be able to fix their real-space position enough for a good jump just by eyeballing the stars. So they could've jumped and jumped and hoped they'd get lucky and find a signal to fix some kind of position on (while the powerplant's still sparkin', the jump drive eventually starts overheating, the eggheads are brain-fried from recomputing visual star positions every couple of hours, and everyone gets put on protein rations 'cause who knows when or if this'll end), or they call for help.

    If the beacons were proximity the Cortez would've had little issue. I still believe the beacons are gate-to-gate stuff, and just make good reference markers even if they aren't explicitly used for jump capable ships.
    Last edited by Radhil; 01-30-2007, 10:59 AM.

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  • jahkneebee
    replied
    As I usually get in trouble thinking, I imperil myself:

    It makes sense that the jump-gates are the source of the beacon. When exiting hyperspace, the ship will activate the gate at the beacon location.

    Memory being faulty at best department: When a jump-capable ship exits on its own power, usually the 'navigator' in many instances would declare "We are just off the so-and-so beacon".

    If a beacon were not necessary, the Cortez could have exited hyperspace at any time, maybe lost a billion light years from home. But they would not be lost forever in hyperspace, which appears to be the fate of ships losing the lock-on. The hyperspace engine must 'need' a beacon lock-on nearby to work at all.

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  • RMcD
    replied
    Originally posted by Harrdy View Post
    Another idea, what happens if you push something only partial throu a gate? So that the base is still in 3D (4D?) space, but the tip in hyperspace... if a small gate would need less energy maybe that would be feasable?
    When things enter hyperspace in B5, they appear to get sucked into a vortex and accelerated through a singularity before being spat out of another, corresponding vortex into hyperspace. By the time you get to the redesigned jump points in A Call to Arms, however, the whole process looks a bit less violent, so I'd be more willing to believe that something could hang half-in, half-out post 2267

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  • Harrdy
    replied
    Well, just thinking: What if the "beacon" is not "fixed", but a little robot (drone), shot through a miniature Gate, transmitting data ("Ping!") and going back again. I cannot remember that there was a steady stream, and maybe a little Gate would need less energy. With a probe you also need no "fix" (of the beacon) in hyperspace. Because - to be honest - the whole idea of "anchoring" something in hyperspace kinda buggs me...

    Another idea, what happens if you push something only partial throu a gate? So that the base is still in 3D (4D?) space, but the tip in hyperspace... if a small gate would need less energy maybe that would be feasable?

    PeAcE

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  • RMcD
    replied
    Originally posted by RedFox View Post
    Interesting discussion

    ...which made me wondering: If jumpgates were 'anchored' in hyperspace (by whatever means) why wouldn't important locations have defensive measures deployed in hyperspace aroung that point? I did a search on weapons and hyperspace and came up with no reason why that would/could not be done*.

    Combining this with the idea that hyperspace is a miniature of real space, you'd basically have a great defence system in place - covering all approaching vessels, even shadow ships.

    What do you think?

    *The fact that at least conventional B5 weapons can be used has been established in "A Distant Star" with Keffer firing his guns to help the Cortez.
    I dunno - there's a lot of talk in B5 about 'riding the hyperspace beacon' and 'lock on signals from jumpgates', but it's never really clear, at least to me, whether these correspond to physical objects in hyperspace or signals transmitted from objects in our space into hyperspace (seemingly without the need to open a jump point).

    The fact that conventional weapons can be used in hyperspace is even better established in Movements of Fire and Shadow, where B5's fighters destroy a Centauri warship in hyperspace before it reaches the jump gate. We also see an unmanned hyperspace probe at the beginning of A View From the Gallery. Why such a probe could not be made into a defence platform I don't know - perhaps the cost and difficulty of building and especially maintaining a permanent defence network in hyperspace is prohibitive.

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  • RedFox
    replied
    Interesting discussion

    ...which made me wondering: If jumpgates were 'anchored' in hyperspace (by whatever means) why wouldn't important locations have defensive measures deployed in hyperspace aroung that point? I did a search on weapons and hyperspace and came up with no reason why that would/could not be done*.

    Combining this with the idea that hyperspace is a miniature of real space, you'd basically have a great defence system in place - covering all approaching vessels, even shadow ships.

    What do you think?

    *The fact that at least conventional B5 weapons can be used has been established in "A Distant Star" with Keffer firing his guns to help the Cortez.

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  • phazedout
    replied
    Just a small point Xatonia
    B5 wasn't canceleld. There was a threatened cancellation by WB so S4 had some of the threads that should have been in S5 but B5 wasn't canceleld.
    Crusade was but the B5 tile was always meant ot be five years. B5 was [b]not[/b canceleld, it simply ended.
    Besides there's no point in having everything solved - some mysteries must remain otherwise what would we discuss.
    Phaze
    on the "trying to gently explain the point of the show" ID
    Last edited by phazedout; 01-24-2007, 03:12 AM. Reason: typo

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  • Xatonia
    replied
    Thanks!

    Thanks for all your help and effort everyone! You've helped alot! And re-reading your answers had made me feel babylon 5 mad all over again...
    Why oh why did they cancel it BEFORE they solved questions like the route the shadows were following etc etc etc... Siiiggggghhh...
    Anyway, off I go back to the real world!
    Thanks again!
    Huge help!
    C
    x

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  • B5_Obsessed
    replied
    Isn't it amazing the quality of answers you get around here?

    I don't think I can add much, except to agree with GH that the hyperspace network is probably limited and may only correspond to a small part of the galaxy. Even the Explorer ship Cortez was only backtracking the routes used by ancient races for millennia. Granted, just recharting the entire network could probably take decades or centuries but there will undoubtably be places where you just can't go, and those are places accessible to and from hyperspace from points off the beacon. Until someone gets ambitious and starts laying asphalt in that direction, it's off limits.

    Of course, the exception would seem to be the Shadows. In Keffer's first encounter, he said the ship wasn't following any beacon, so they may have found a better way through hyperspace but they ain't telling.

    And thanks for that last question: How do you anchor a beacon in hyperspace? Feel free to make something up. That's all we're doing.

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  • Radhil
    replied
    Either as you say, points of no appreciable or at least cancelled out drift points, or the gates themselves can project a signal into hyperspace without the physical rift being open.

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