Political Alliegance of Babylon 5, 2272

[BabylonRebel]

Had a thought - does anyone think that in 'Voices in the Dark' we will see Babylon 5 being given back to the Earth Alliance?
From the photos that JMS has put out we've seen Captain/Colonel Lochley's Earth Force uniform, as well as (I think) an Earth Force security uniform. Do you think we'll see a mixture of Earth Alliance/Narn/Army of Light personel working the station? or the crew, much as they appeared, in Season Five? Plus, we know from 'Sleeping in Light' it was given back, as Zack is wearing an Earth Alliance uniform and dialogue spoken.

[Jan]

Anything's possible I suppose but I honestly think that the segments are still planned to be heavily character oriented. I can't think of any character story where that return would matter.

Jan

[moreorless]

Anything's possible I suppose but I honestly think that the segments are still planned to be heavily character oriented. I can't think of any character story where that return would matter.

Jan

Can't say I'v kept up on all the rumours but wouldnt the handover be a good explanation of why Sheridan is visiting B5?

[BabylonRebel]

I believe that Sheridan is visiting B5 to celebrate 10 years of the Interstellar Alliance.

[Whyruss]

I just hope it's no "someone wants to assassinate Sheridan" story ^^

[B5_Obsessed]

I just hope it's no "someone wants to assassinate Sheridan" story ^^

When you're President, someone ALWAYS wants to assassinate you.

The synopsis says Sheridan is commemorating the 10th year of the Alliance, so obviously Babylon 5 is always a good place to show your respects. Lochley never left the EA and assumed command of directly from Sheridan. I'm pretty sure that B5, although it housed the temporary HQ of the Alliance, was handed back to the EA very shortly after the formation of the Alliance and run under EA jurisdiction (hence the Lochley - Psi Corps cooperation).

[OmahaStar]

Speaking of Lochley, I love the idea that the station commander with the fewest number of episodes had command the longest.

Sinclair had two years (22 episodes plus 1 movie), Sheridan had just under three years (and one movie). The Lochley took over and has been commander for ten years, though she was only in, what, half of the fifth season, three eps of Crusade and two movies.

[Joseph DeMartino]

As far as I know control of the station reverted completely to the Earth Alliance on or about January 1, 2263. After the end of the Earth Civil War and the formation of the Alliance the station was leased from Earth by the IA as its temporary headquarters while permanent facilities were being prepared on Minbar. I believe the lease was for the single year that Sheridan and Delenn remained and that it would have expired shortly after they departed. Day-to-day operations remained under the control of EarthForce throughout. Sheridan's agreement with Lochley was that she handled military and station matters, and that Sheridan would have authority over political matters.

Do you think we'll see a mixture of Earth Alliance/Narn/Army of Light personel working the station? or the crew, much as they appeared, in Season Five?

The Narn would no longer be assisting with security as EarthForce would have long since been able replace the security personnel who left or were removed from the station in 2261. There were only a few crew members who continued to wear their Army of Light uniforms or civilian dress during S5, and that was probably a matter of personal conscience (there must have been a great deal of ambivalance about the war and their own roles for many of them) rather than a mark of mixed command. Lochley probably turned a blind eye to this relatively minor matter. There were a lot of changes and adjustments to be made in the wake of the war, and a lot of people on both sides were killed, so getting a place like B5 back to full spit and polish EarthForce standards would have been less important to her than simply getting the place running smoothly and healing some of the wounds of the conflict.

Regarding the Teeps: JMS's original plan was to have the Teep colony gradually established during S4, while B5 was still independent. That would have given the Teeps a different status, with the chance of being "grandfathered in" as a pre-existing colony.

Instead they came aboard in S5, and that creates a problem. As Bester points out the IA treaty leaves each government free to handle its own internal affairs and its own populace. (Except in cases where their actions would violate the Declaration of Principles.) Now Sheridan probably has a case for some form of diplomatic immunity for Byron's people to the degree that they were earning their keep as a semi-official covert intelligence unit for the IA, but as soon as they went rogue and turned to blackmail, he rightly withdrew his protection and that meant the he couldn't interfere in Lochley's enforcement of Earth law. And Lochley had no choice but to call in Psi Corps when the Teeps became a threat to the station and refused to surrender peacefully. (Excuse me while I take a moment to lament what this storyline might have been with Susan Ivanova in command of B5. *sigh*)

We know that the IA later intervenes in the Telepath War. (Bester blames Sheridan for Psi Corps' ultimate defeat.) In the past I've speculated that this resulted because the war spilled over beyond Earth-controlled space. (Lyta's training facilities and supply bases were probably in alien territory, and for that matter so were the covert motherships operated by Psi Corps.) But now I'm wondering if Sheridan doesn't use the IA charter to intervene on "human rights" grounds when word about the Psi Corps re-education camps and massacres of blips and mundanes get out.

Regards,

Joe

[Joseph DeMartino]

There is another possible political angle to this. Late in 2267 or early in 2268 Matthew Gideon and his crew discovered that EarthForce was involved in covert and possibly illegal experiments involving Shadow technology. By 2268 an apparent cure to the Drakh plague wold have been found, but Gideon would have evidence that it wasn't what it seemed. When no one believed him he would have stolen Excalibur and gone renegade in an attempt to uncover the truth and avert a disaster.

There are numerous clues in the surviving 13 Crusade episodes to suggest that both John Sheridan through the IA and Elizabeth Lochley would have provided at least some covert support to Gideon and Excalibur. The 2272 date suggests the Crusade story has just ended or is about to end, so Lochley may still be somewhat in the doghouse with EartGov, depending on how much anybody knows about her involvement with Gideon. (There was also a suggestion of a romance possibly developing between the two captains, so there's another loose end.) It is even possible that her change of rank is connected with all this. Maybe she found it politic to transfer from the "navy" part of the service to the Marine or Amry part, while still retaining her command of the station.

BTW, it is no wonder that a lot of people on Earth aren't crazy about John Sheridan:

2261 - Sheridan leads the rebel forces in the Civil War. He ousts the tyrranical Clark, but he kills an awful lot of EarthForce personnel in the process. He also imposes Martian independence as a condition of admission to the new Interstellar Alliance, something Earth had been resisting for decades and which the native Mars resistance movement had never been able to win. (And Earth can hardly afford to reject IA membership given the technological benefits that come with it, and the disadvantage this would put them at vis a vis the other races.)

2264/65 - The Interstellar Alliance intervenes in the Telepath War, tipping the balance against the Psi Corps - and killing an unknown number of combatants.

2266 - The Drakh attack Earth to avenge the Shadow's defeat by Sheridan and Delenn. Although Sheridan is successful in stopping the Shadow planet-killer from destroying Earth outright, Earth is seeded with a plague that will certainly kill tens of thousands, perhaps millions, even if it can be cured. If it can't, all life on Earth will be killed.

2268-72 - Sheridan supports Matthew Gideon, who is officially an outlaw wanted by the Earth Alliance. By treaty the IA should cooperate in apprehending him and extradite him if he is captured. Again, it isn't clear how much anybody knows about this, but the mere fact that Gideon can continue to operate and ellude authorities suggests that he's getting help from somebody.

Regards,

Joe

[Kevin]

Speaking of Lochley, I love the idea that the station commander with the fewest number of episodes had command the longest.

Sinclair had two years (22 episodes plus 1 movie), Sheridan had just under three years (and one movie). The Lochley took over and has been commander for ten years, though she was only in, what, half of the fifth season, three eps of Crusade and two movies.

B5 went online in 2256, so I think Sinclair's closer to 3 years really, which helps to explain the "old friend" comment he makes to Delenn in The Gathering. But yeah, Lochley being there the longest is kinda amusing.

I was just thinking about it the other day actually, that in TLT she'll have been in command of the station for a decade, which is a *long* time to be in one post when you're in the military. I think that reason alone is why I'm pretty sure jms will play the Colonel rank off as a promotion, despite the excellent arguments to the contrary that have already been made on this forum. (I strongly agree with the whole analysis on an intellectual basis, but my gut just tells me that's not where he's gonna go with this )

[BabylonRebel]

I'm fairly certain (although I'll have to rewatch them) that in 'A Call to Arms' Zack is wearing his Army of Light uniform, and that there are Narn's working customs. Same with Corwin in 'River of Souls' which, I believe, is set about May 2263.

[grumbler]

I seem to recall Commander Nils saying something in "Sleeping in Light" about B5 becoming redundant after it was returned to Earthforce control, with the implication that this was fairly recent. The writer of the synopsis on The Lurker's Guide agrees ("Babylon 5 was returned to Earth a few years ago").

[NotKosh]

When you're President, someone ALWAYS wants to assassinate you.

The synopsis says Sheridan is commemorating the 10th year of the Alliance, so obviously Babylon 5 is always a good place to show your respects. Lochley never left the EA and assumed command of directly from Sheridan. I'm pretty sure that B5, although it housed the temporary HQ of the Alliance, was handed back to the EA very shortly after the formation of the Alliance and run under EA jurisdiction (hence the Lochley - Psi Corps cooperation).

Thank you for stating the obvious. After the Civil War was ended and resolved, the EA got B5 back. Why do people miss this?

[NotKosh]

I seem to recall Commander Nils saying something in "Sleeping in Light" about B5 becoming redundant after it was returned to Earthforce control, with the implication that this was fairly recent. The writer of the synopsis on The Lurker's Guide agrees ("Babylon 5 was returned to Earth a few years ago").

I totally dismiss this whole "B5 was redundant argument" of JMS. It is his justification for blowing up the station. In a future like that, there are a million and one purposes you can put a station like that to. Plenty of people who want to use it, or buy it also. So you de-mil the thing, first, then sell it for trillions of credits.

If it was on the trading routes, and was a neutral place in space, it is still on the trading routes, and is still a neutral place in space.

His arguments hold no water.

[Kevin]

Thank you for stating the obvious. After the Civil War was ended and resolved, the EA got B5 back. Why do people miss this?

Because that is directly contradicting what the show says in the very first episode of Season 5.

Allow me to hit you up with some dialogue from "No Compromises"

LOCHLEY: It's my understanding that Babylon 5 is to remain an independent state pending decision by the Alliance to formally buy it from Earth.

SHERIDAN: That's correct.

The only reason Lochely is stationed on B5 is because...

LOCHLEY: Then why bring in someone from EarthForce to run things? Why not someone else?

SHERIDAN: Tradition for one thing. For another, we're still trying to heal the wounds from the civil war back home. Putting someone from EarthForce in charge of B5 will help cement us with the folks back there, military and civilian... In a way it's saying, We're independent, but in a way we'll always remember where we came from.

The EA did not get B5 back right after the civil war, plain and simply, stated as clearly and as obviously in the show from the get-go of Seaosn 5.

Furthermore, your comments on SiL and the "needless" destruction of B5 have been pretty much argued to death elsewhere, but you've already mentioned the fundamental problem with your argument: neutral space. B5 was great for trade when it was in neutral space, or in other words, out of the way for everyone. With the advent of the IA, being able to go to neutral space for trade became more and more unnessecary. Think what's happening over in Europe with the EU for example. The old trade routes were no longer as useful because revolutionizing and simplifying trade was exactly the type of thing that the IA was trying to change. Therefore B5 became more out of the way and more useless.

There may be plenty of people who'd like a space station like B5, but it's not making any money where it is (hell it struggled to make a profit in it's highlight years) and the only way you're moving it is through hyperspace, a trip it was not designed to be able to survive and one that would tear that shoddy construction job to bits.

It's not useful for anything else, so you take what you can that's not already obsolete (which wouldn't be much), and then you blow it up. Military vessels are decommissioned in similar ways, as are buildings and structures and all sorts of things. There's no reason why a space station would be any different.