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Season 5 - Was It Needed?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by NotSoWize View Post
    I also didn't really buy into the Lyta turning against B5 "good guys" so quickly.
    I thought much the same originally but the next time I watched the series I paid much more attention to the way Lyta was treated (and Talia before her) from the very beginning. She really was used and then tossed asside over and over. I think that she simply reached a point were she couldn't take any more. Add in all that she'd learned about her talent while fighting for the teeps and you've got a woman who realized that she didn't have to take it anymore. The loss of Byron gave her a purpose and goal that she'd never had before.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #47
      While there obviously were reasons it wasnt as effective as it could have been I can't honiestly say that I don't think the telepath arc had some bad writting/casting aswell.

      I didn't mind Byron, just how rushed the whole telepaths vs. psi corps story wound up feeling. I also didn't really buy into the Lyta turning against B5 "good guys" so quickly. Had this been spread out over portions of S4 and S5 as originally planned, it would probably have fit better. The thing that really killed this arc for me was Byron's long speech at the climax of the whole thing while Sheridan et al just stood around waiting for him to kill himself without taking any action whatsoever. That scene really stank IMO, and was a very weak payoff for a several episode arc.
      I personally wasnt a fan of the way Lochey's skills were gotten over most of the time either, by having the characters around her act dumb/imcompetant rather than actually solving problems.
      Who are you?
      What do you want?
      What is the average inflight speed of an unladened swallow?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        I thought much the same originally but the next time I watched the series I paid much more attention to the way Lyta was treated (and Talia before her) from the very beginning. She really was used and then tossed asside over and over. I think that she simply reached a point were she couldn't take any more. Add in all that she'd learned about her talent while fighting for the teeps and you've got a woman who realized that she didn't have to take it anymore. The loss of Byron gave her a purpose and goal that she'd never had before.

        Jan
        Well noted. The way Lyta is treated by the Sheridan in S4 is a disgrace, although some of that might have been payback for her trick with Z'ha'Dhum.

        Also, people's attitudes can change when they realize they can exercise the power of a (minor) deity.
        "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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        • #49
          Originally posted by NotKosh View Post
          Well noted. The way Lyta is treated by the Sheridan in S4 is a disgrace, although some of that might have been payback for her trick with Z'ha'Dhum.

          Also, people's attitudes can change when they realize they can exercise the power of a (minor) deity.
          I think JMS has said that the way Lyta was treated (badly) was deliberately designed to show Sheridan as less than perfect. I also thought that he was secretly glad that she had taken care of the problem of Bester and the Psi Corps getting access to Z'Ha'Dum's secrets. If he was really mad at her because she userped a power he himself coveted (the ultimate choice over what the Psi Corps had access to) then he revealed another character flaw right there. She was in a far better position to make that call than he.

          What really got her, though, was IMO the realization that she had always been just a pawn created by the Vorlons for their own purposes. She had genuinely liked and trusted Kosh (and by extension the Vorlons) and discovered that she had never really had any free will; that Ulkesh, not Kosh, had been the "typical Vorlon."
          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by NotKosh View Post
            Well noted. The way Lyta is treated by the Sheridan in S4 is a disgrace, although some of that might have been payback for her trick with Z'ha'Dhum.

            Also, people's attitudes can change when they realize they can exercise the power of a (minor) deity.
            I think Talia was always treated with a bit more respect, probably due to her active status with the Psi Corps, or maybe just because she appears somehow stronger (or bitchier?) than Lyta. The one time Sheridan overstepped his bounds and forced the meeting in the hallway with Morden, Talia gave him a good leather-gloved smack.

            I don't know if this was a joke, but I heard JMS and the director kept finding reasons to do additional takes on the scene until Boxleitner's face was red as a tomato. "Take 24", *SMACK*
            Only a fool fights in a burning house.

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            • #51
              I personally want to know what the aftermath is for characters I care about. That is what Season 5 was. The last 3 episodes of Season 5 are the most powerful in the entirety of the series. G'Kar forgiving Londo. Londo's fall into darkness. G'Kar's rise to Messiah. The trouble with strating a wholly new form of government with uncooperative and scheming diplomats. Sheridan's passing and the fate of the station are all poigniant moments.
              Sleeping in Light works better after 5th season, plain and simple. JMS made the right move by adding the 5th season.

              BTW, the opening credits to Season 5 were my favorite. The opening music from "Voices of Authority" with the sound bites from pivotal moments in the series was brilliant and imbues the listener with a sense of nostalgia.
              "If I could be a bird, I'd be a Flying Purple People Eater because then people would sing about me and I could fly down and eat them because I hate that song. " - Jack Handey

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair View Post
                I have seen some people criticise it for being an anticlimactic extended epilogue but, whilst the condensing of the show into 4 seasons certainly harmed it (e.g. the main action at the end of the Earth civil war was supposed to take place in S5) I am with JMS on that one.
                I know it wasn't the initial intention but I think the idea of a season-long epilogue is brilliant and just one more thing that makes Babylon 5 original and unique.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
                  I'm halfway through Season 4 and I'm pondering that question myself. In my opinion, even the oft-touted better episodes from the second half of Season 5 still pale in comparison to those of the previous seasons, both in terms of plot and pacing. From Rising Star it was easy to project forward 20 years to Sleeping in Light, with Delenn's voiceover highlighting most of the major historical points in the timeline. At the time of its completion, it was fully expected that it would be the second to last episode since Season 5 was negotiated at the 11th and 3/4 hour.

                  I'll probably sit my ass down in good faith with the intent to watch the entire season, only to find myself skipping entire disks in a mad rush to see Sleeping in Light.

                  What I really want to see is.....

                  THE.
                  TELEPATH.
                  WAR.
                  I have to admit, when it comes to rewatching B5, I definitely pick and choose in S5. Actually I jump basically to And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder. Or put in Objects in Motion and watch from their to the end.

                  I really need to watch it more completely, but there is only so much telepath singing I can take.
                  Last edited by NotKosh; 03-13-2007, 11:59 AM.
                  "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                  • #54
                    .....And we will all come together in a better place, a better place than....

                    OOPS, sorry!

                    http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                    Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                    47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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                    • #55
                      How many times did they actually sing? I only remember 2 offhand.

                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                      • #56
                        I thought they day of the dead was one of the best eppisodes of all B5 shows.


                        However, Byron and co---did not need them

                        one complaint I do have. Hope I say this the right way-- I felt overall--season 5 lacked some Umph and X factor--something that just left you saying DAMN that was good.

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