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  • #61
    Originally posted by phazedout View Post
    On the minbari cast thing the workers may be a "hidden" caste the existence of which is not admitted to outsiders (to protect the honour of others).
    Caste could be a matter of rank. Warriors and Religious Caste members may have officer rank. In current Earth armies chaplains hold the equivalent of officer rank. It is only when outsiders asked what caste the peasants (workers) are in that a non-officer caste was invented.
    Andrew Swallow

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    • #62
      Just wondering, was there ever a Worker Caste character? I can't remember seening one (except for the hooded Grey Council).
      Ranger Code

      We walk in the places no others will enter.
      We do not break away from combat.
      We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
      We do not retreat whatever the reason.
      We live for The One, we die for The One.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by phazedout View Post
        On the minbari cast thing the workers may be a "hidden" caste the existence of which is not admitted to outsiders (to protect the honour of others).
        Phaze
        on the "sepculative JMS mistake correcting" ID
        Watch the opening of Deathwalker, where Na'Toth beats the crap out of Jhadur. There's a Minbari in the background who, based on his outfit, must surely be worker caste. Others can be seen in the background of various scenes in S1. So outsiders must have been aware of them.. More likely they generally side with the religious caste, so Lennier doesn't consider them worth mentioning as a separate faction (and there's probably a touch of class prejudice there as well).

        Valen was credited with creating the three caste system - three is sacred.

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        • #64
          In 'A Day in the Strife' there's one or two Minbari amongst the striking cargo shuttle crews, I presume they are Worker class too.

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          • #65
            Although it's not entirely clear, I would guess the guy Delenn accosts about the life support units in In the Beginning is worker caste as well (and actually speaks).

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Ranger1 View Post
              Great great news, damnit i can't wait.

              I am already getting that 'I cannot wait' feeling. It's happening, it is really happpening at last!!!!
              http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
              Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
              47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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              • #67
                Although not apparent, we always see 3 Worker Caste in the Grey Council.
                John Brittain
                2blueshoes.com for free blues downloads

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by NotKosh View Post
                  Except, in the British Navy they weren't called ensigns, they were midshipmen.
                  In the early naval period, that is correct. Later, they were called ensigns, for the same reasons as military "officers but not to be trusted because they are too junior" types are called ensigns. Same department, different division.
                  I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by NotKosh View Post
                    2) The admirals were eliminated. Sorry, think what you want, but 1 reference in a script that wasn't adjusted, doesn't change the fact that every single high ranking EA officer we saw, who otherwise was in the role of an admiral, was called "general"
                    I can propose a theory that answers all arguments over "admirals":

                    The rank of "admiral" is the equivalent of the modern USN title of "Commodore." No one gets that title (officially) unless they command a squadron of ships. In the modern USN, seagoing surface warfare captains get assigned to one of two positions:
                    (1) Commodore of a squadron of smaller ships, or
                    (2) Sole command of a cruiser.

                    In the modern USN there are people of the rank of captain who get the honorary title of "commodore" while embarked on a ship so as to avoid confusion, but that is not necessary to consider here.

                    If we assume that the title (which is not a rank but a title) of "Admiral" gets attached to those (senior captains?) and colonels that get assigned to command groups of smaller ships, we can assume that the title exists but only where we cannot see it in seasons one and two, because we don't see massed Earthforce ships, but singletons.

                    By the time season 3 rolls around, all of the "admirals" are gone, and groups of ships are commanded by captains for the most part and a general in the one case. Where did the admirals go?

                    I think the latter question is answered by the fact that the JCS resigned in protest over Clarke's actions re: Mars (as we saw Ivanova announce over the VoR). If they all resigned, what would their proteges (who were at this point the "admirals" of the fleet) do? They would do the same, to less fanfare. Honor would require it.

                    Clarke would be reluctant to call his new force commanders "admiral" given the history of that title, and so the title dies without us ever seeing it in person.

                    If I am right, then Colonel ben Zayn may well have been one of the "admirals" competing for the B5 post that Garibaldi mentioned.

                    So, you can have it all wrapped in a bow, if you want. There is nothing "un-admiral" about B5 unless you are unadmirable yerself!
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                    • #70
                      You know, it occurred to me that another reason Admiral doesn't immediately follow Captain in B5 might actually be to distinguish the rank structure subtly from Star Trek - where, in the movies, Kirk's promotion from Captain to Admiral and demotion back again becomes a bit of a plot point.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by RMcD View Post
                        Valen was credited with creating the three caste system - three is sacred.
                        Valen didn't create the castes; he stopped them from engaging in caste warfare by forming the Grey Council, which created a peace between the three castes that lasted for 1,000 years.

                        From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
                        Subject: Question for JMS: Mimbari Warr
                        To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
                        Date: 12/13/1994 2:51:00 PM

                        Prior to the time of Valen, the Minbari's greatest spiritual leader,
                        there was killing of Minbari by Minbari. There were three warring castes,
                        which he pulled together when he formed the Grey Council (three from each
                        caste forming nine, Worker, Warrior, Religious Caste). Since that time,
                        and the Minbari have been in space for well over a thousand years, they
                        have pretty much hewn to that rule; it is their greatest taboo. Once the
                        three sides were integrated, the warrior caste mainly contented itself
                        with external threats.

                        jms
                        That's why you have the structures for dealing with which caste will be the "ruling caste" in the whole Minbari Civil War arc in Season 4.

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