Question about Ivanova

[Jan]

Originally posted by grumbler
JMS has stated that "she was offered" 18 eps at an 18 ep price. JMS doesn't say he offered it, he just says that a valgue someone offered it. Claudia specifically says that Copeland refused her agent's offer for just that, and Copeland has never (to my knowledge) denied this. Now, it could be that CC's offer wasn't clear enough that Copeland understood it as such (for JMS insists that she refused to do 18 eps for 18 ep pay) or WB's offer of the same wasn't, but time apparently precluded getting any clarification, and that was that. The train left and CC wasn't on it.

Actually, what JMS said that he told Claudia was:

That said...I already *told* Claudia that, even though we
couldn't put it in the contract, I would be happy to work with her
*informally* on this, and that if she said she needed to be gone from X-date to Y-date, I would write her out of those episodes so that she could do the movies. SHE ALREADY GOT FROM ME THAT PROMISE. I've already done similar things for her and other cast members on the show, which is how many of them have appeared in other projects. So this is,
for me, a non-issue.

In another message he stated this about Claudia's representation:

BTW...it was stated to Claudia's people that WB *could* drop her down to 18 episodes if she wanted to be paid for only those 18 episodes, but her reps demanded that she should be paid for all 22 regardless, and didn't take that deal.

So you have JMS who spoke directly to Claudia and someone else dealing with her reps apparently. Which makes sense since Claudia and JMS were in the UK for a convention.

Jan

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Jan
I think there may be some confusion here. First off, the actors contracts, per JMS were for 5 years:

Agreed, but also note that these contracts were for appearing on the syndicated network PTEN, not for appearing on cable.

However, the time had passed for the S5 pick-up and the actors had, with the exception of Claudia, signed extensions.

Yes, they had signed extensions to their PTEN-related contracts so that they would be under contract to WB while WB negotiated with TNT. They all signed new contracts at the new rates (which were the same pay rates but less return from residuals for the stars).

As for WB offering contracts less favorable due to the change from broadcast syndication to cable, it's actually a matter negotiated by the various guilds that caused that problem rather than it being an item negotiated per individual contract.

Exactly. Not CCs fault, not JMS's fault, its what the market decided. CC has stated several times that she was willing to make (effectively) less per episode if she could get the four eps off she needed.

JMS has stated that "she was offered" 18 eps at an 18 ep price. JMS doesn't say he offered it, he just says that a valgue someone offered it. Claudia specifically says that Copeland refused her agent's offer for just that, and Copeland has never (to my knowledge) denied this. Now, it could be that CC's offer wasn't clear enough that Copeland understood it as such (for JMS insists that she refused to do 18 eps for 18 ep pay) or WB's offer of the same wasn't, but time apparently precluded getting any clarification, and that was that. The train left and CC wasn't on it.

[RCmodeler]

.

FACT:
Every regular actor/actress had a 5-year contract (per JMS) that was automatically renewed each year... unless an actor chose to quit, like Claudia did.

FACT:
That contract had a "favored nation" clause (per JMS) such that if Claudia received a per-episode raise, than Bruce and all the other regulars ALSO received a raise.

FACT:
WB did not want to (or afford to) give everyone a raise (per JMS).


Those are the facts. They are not debateable Grumbler.

[CRONAN]

Dead figuratively, not literally. Deal with it.

[Jan]

Originally posted by CRONAN
The main point being: Ivoniva is dead. Deal with it.

Gotta disagree there. She's not dead - JMS didn't kill off the character or try to recast her the way he did with Na'toth.

While people like to say things to the effect of "she pissed JMS off so she'll never work for him again", *he's* never said anything of the sort. In fact, fairly recently on Jeremiah, he *proved* that he'll do what's right for the story regardless of having been teed off before. The actor who'd played General Hague on B5 but pulled out to do a 2-parter for DS9 was up for the role of the President and JMS hired him because he was right for the part.

She's not dead, just trying to find the calling of her heart.

Jan

[CRONAN]

The main point being: Ivoniva is dead. Deal with it.

[Jan]

I think there may be some confusion here. First off, the actors contracts, per JMS were for 5 years:

But there are a number of common-sense things at work here, as
much as anything involving a studio can be described as common sense.
Given that all our actors/service contracts are deliberately for 5
years not the more traditional 7, continuing B5 per se past year 5
becomes impossible, due to the hideous level of re-negotiation of
contracts that would have to take place. The cost would skyrocket.

However, the time had passed for the S5 pick-up and the actors had, with the exception of Claudia, signed extensions.

One clarification. You cannot fire someone who does not work
for you. That is the one part of this conversation everybody keeps
forgetting. As of June 15th, when Claudia did not give the extension,
her contract expired and she no longer worked for B5, or WB; neither
had any call or hold on her.

As for WB offering contracts less favorable due to the change from broadcast syndication to cable, it's actually a matter negotiated by the various guilds that caused that problem rather than it being an item negotiated per individual contract.

One of the annoying tragedies of this whole thing is that the
above misinformation has gotten coin. Nobody was asked to, or
accepted, a cutback in salary. Every cast member got their salary
bumps this year. The ONLY change in that respect is that series
produced for cable operate on a different residuals structure than
network (big residuals) or syndication (medium residuals)...in cable,
the amount an actor receives over double-scale is applied as an advance
against royalties. Once that advance is burned through, which in the
case of some actors on B5 happens in just a few runs of the show, the
residuals kick in again.

Hope that helps clarify things.

Jan

[grumbler]

Re: Here is a link to a quote from JMS...

Originally posted by gchapman1701
Here is one of the "favored nation" quotes. They aren't that hard to find.

Those are not hard to find. What is hard to find is the direct quote of JMS that RC Modeler used. That's why I always ask for a link to a direct JMS quote - so I can see it in context.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by RCmodeler
Already provided:

No, I was asking for the link that backed up your statement that "The contract used in Years 1/2/3/4 and Year 5 were exactly the same. In fact it was just ONE contract that covered all of B5," not asking for some random link. Do you have a link showing that there was only one contract for all five years (despite JMS's statements to the contrary) or do you not?

So as I said before: I consider Claudia to be greedy. She wanted more money, but she KNEW that was not possible, because of her 5-year contract. She should have known not to ask.

You may consider her greedy, but the claim that she "knew it was not possible because of her five year contract" flies in the face of what JMS said on the very page you quoted from in your post (the repost of his 2 oct 97 CS): "As of June 15th, when Claudia did not give the extension, her contract expired and she no longer worked for B5, or WB; neither had any call or hold on her. What had to happen then was for WB to put an offer on the table for her services. This was done." So, she wasn't under a five-year contract or none of this would be necessary. JMS claims that as of June 15th, she had no contract. You claim he is lying. I believe him.

CC believed that WB was interested in negotiating a new contract with her (which would include time off), and they were not. Time didn't allow for negotiations to resolve this dispute.

BTW, I have similar distaste for Terry Farrell (Jadzia Dax). I'm an engineer, and if I'm on a 5-year-project I don't just walk out in year 5 and leave the company lurching. It's irresponsible and unprofessional.

So if you had a five-year contract, and your company voided that contract and gave you a new one with fewer benefits, you would automatically sign it? Man, I hope the next engineer I hire is as naive as you.

[RCmodeler]

Originally posted by grumbler
Linky-poo?

Already provided:

Originally posted by CRONAN
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/misc/cc-leave.html

#: 706469 S5/Babylon 5: General
02-Oct-97 03:43:24
Sb: #706114-#CC Situation
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

She was told that if she wanted to be *paid* for 22 episodes, then the contract would have to stipulate that she was hired for 22 episodes. The probelm was that she wanted to have the contract read that she was being paid for 22 episodes, but appearing in 18, which constitutes a per-episode pay increase, which would invalidate our contracts with all the other cast members, who are on a favored-nation basis.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

So as I said before: I consider Claudia to be greedy. She wanted more money, but she KNEW that was not possible, because of her 5-year contract. She should have known not to ask.


BTW, I have similar distaste for Terry Farrell (Jadzia Dax). I'm an engineer, and if I'm on a 5-year-project I don't just walk out in year 5 and leave the company lurching. It's irresponsible and unprofessional.

[gchapman1701]

Here is a link to a quote from JMS...

Here is one of the "favored nation" quotes. They aren't that hard to find.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=jms+%22favored+nation+%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=19971003020631140.AAA304%40BBARRETT&rnum=3

[CRONAN]

And CRONAN, next time, save the 'trons. If you don't want to read this, don't
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, obviously Im reading this forum, so it follows I must want to.

And plz clarify; what the heck is a 'tron?

[grumbler]

Originally posted by RCmodeler
Not true. The contract used in Years 1/2/3/4 and Year 5 were exactly the same. In fact it was just ONE contract that covered all of B5.

Linky-poo?

Furthermore you can READ jms comments wherein he says, "We could not give Claudia a raise because of the favored nation clause that ALL actors get a raise."

I can? Where? What date? I did a search on your quote and got zero hits, either here or at the Lurker's Guide. On the other hand, CC says in her 7/27/77 statement (quoted on LG) specifically that she was not asking for more money. " That was the only thing I was asking for. No raise--accepting a paycut-- simply less episodes, period."

It has always been my contention that it was the time crunch that prevented meaningful negotiations on what seemed to me to be a reasonable request on the part of CC: that she get four episodes off so she could do some other work. After all, as we saw in the final product, the station commander wasn't needed in all the eps anyway. Attempts to villify either JMS or CC on this are ungrounded in fact, IMO.

I also wouldn't put too much trust in what either JMS or CC were saying in the heat of the moment (like JMS's outrage that CC was attempting to "renegotiate contracts in mid-stream" when in the next paragraph he notes that she didn't have a contract).

And CRONAN, next time, save the 'trons. If you don't want to read this, don't.

[CRONAN]

*yaaaaaaaawn*

[RCmodeler]

Originally posted by grumbler
Absurd. The 5-year contracts were voided by WB, not CC. WB offered new contracts (less lucrative) because the show was moving from broadcast syndication to cable.

Not true. The contract used in Years 1/2/3/4 and Year 5 were exactly the same. In fact it was just ONE contract that covered all of B5.

Furthermore you can READ jms comments wherein he says, "We could not give Claudia a raise because of the favored nation clause that ALL actors get a raise."