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  • Question about Ivanova

    Cheers

    I never thought that I'd write on these boards, but this one I just got to ask:

    Why did JMS write Ivanova out before the 5th season ? And after that the next time we heard of her was in the last episode (Sleeping in Light). It feels odd that such a great and well composed character is abandoned before the conclusion of the series.



    -Dipper

  • #2
    Hello Dipper and welcome to the B5 forum!

    As to your question, everything you ever wanted to know about jms's decision to write off Claudia can be found at this link:

    http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/misc/cc-leave.html

    My take on the issue is that Claudia had the opertunity to continue with B5, though not on her terms.

    Despite that I find it hard to discredit her over a minor legal dispute. From her remarks its obvious she felt strongly commited to B5 at the time. I'm sure her not being on B5 S5 was probably worse on her than any of the fans, so really in that respect its a no win situation.
    Last edited by CRONAN; 04-12-2004, 10:48 PM.

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    • #3
      The above post gives excellent info which should explain any inquiry you may have.

      All I'd add is that Sleeping in Light has Ivanova because it was filmed at the end of Season 4 and then aired at the end of Season 5. Technically speaking, it is a Season 4 episode with Deconstruction of Falling Stars (the final Season 4 episode) technically a Season 5 episode.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the info. And as a follow up, did JMS ever tell what would've happened to Ivanova in the 5th season ? He states that he only had to tweak first two episodes of the season to introduce the new character, so can we draw a conclusion from this that the 5th season didn't change at all even though Ivanova was joy riding with Warlock class cruisers ? )

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        • #5
          Okay here's a quote:
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          It's no secret that I would've had Ivanova becoming somewhat
          linked to Byron romantically (she would see him as a character like
          Marcus, which is why there are certain similarities, and she would take
          a chance only to find it wrong this time, underlining that she'd missed
          her one major opportunity thus far for a good relationship). This was
          expressed to Claudia toward the last part of S4, so she knew at that
          time that her latent ability would be coming out, and that she'd have a
          big part in S5.

          In this scenario, Lyta would have become a devoted follower of
          Byron's, much as she has, but it would have been more love from afar:
          protective, somewhat unrequited but hoping for more...so that when he
          met his fate, Lyta would end up right where she is now, just by a
          different road.

          jms
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Last edited by CRONAN; 04-13-2004, 12:34 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Again, above note pretty much covers it, but I'd add that orignally she wasn't to go for the Warlock Cruiser, and in fact the final line didn't talk about her taking on a Warlock Cruiser but (and this is from memory so it may be a bit off) "taking time off to decide whether to take command of Babylon 5 or to take one of the new Warlock Cruisers."

            The line was changed when Claudia decided not to return. She would have taken over B5, originally.

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            • #7
              I consider Claudia to be greedy. She wanted more money, but she KNEW that was not possible, because of her 5-year contract. She should have known not to ask.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RCmodeler
                I consider Claudia to be greedy. She wanted more money, but she KNEW that was not possible, because of her 5-year contract. She should have known not to ask.
                Absurd. The 5-year contracts were voided by WB, not CC. WB offered new contracts (less lucrative) because the show was moving from broadcast syndication to cable. WB's subsequent scramble to get contracts signed with no possibility of negotiations doomed CC's efforts to negotiate fewer appearances in the fifth season: WB simply said if they wanted her for 22 eps, they would use here for 22 eps, and the contract for all 22 eps was "take it or leave it."

                CC decided to leave it. Ironically, her replacement only appeared in eight episodes, so WB's intransigence really seems, in retrospect, completely unnecessary. But, that's show biz and show biz egos.
                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                • #9
                  grumbler

                  Your comment seems to be the norm these days, everywhere. For instance, the government will gladly spend three times the amount denying a problem than they would spend just fixing the problem in the first place.
                  "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
                    grumbler

                    Your comment seems to be the norm these days, everywhere. For instance, the government will gladly spend three times the amount denying a problem than they would spend just fixing the problem in the first place.
                    Yeah. I don't really BLAME anyone for CC not being in Season 5. The blame really rets with the decision-makers that killed off PTEN and forced the changes in the contracts - and even THEY might not have had a choice.
                    Last edited by grumbler; 04-13-2004, 12:08 PM.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by grumbler
                      Absurd. The 5-year contracts were voided by WB, not CC. WB offered new contracts (less lucrative) because the show was moving from broadcast syndication to cable.

                      Not true. The contract used in Years 1/2/3/4 and Year 5 were exactly the same. In fact it was just ONE contract that covered all of B5.

                      Furthermore you can READ jms comments wherein he says, "We could not give Claudia a raise because of the favored nation clause that ALL actors get a raise."
                      Last edited by RCmodeler; 04-13-2004, 02:18 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        *yaaaaaaaawn*

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RCmodeler
                          Not true. The contract used in Years 1/2/3/4 and Year 5 were exactly the same. In fact it was just ONE contract that covered all of B5.
                          Linky-poo?

                          Furthermore you can READ jms comments wherein he says, "We could not give Claudia a raise because of the favored nation clause that ALL actors get a raise."
                          I can? Where? What date? I did a search on your quote and got zero hits, either here or at the Lurker's Guide. On the other hand, CC says in her 7/27/77 statement (quoted on LG) specifically that she was not asking for more money. " That was the only thing I was asking for. No raise--accepting a paycut-- simply less episodes, period."

                          It has always been my contention that it was the time crunch that prevented meaningful negotiations on what seemed to me to be a reasonable request on the part of CC: that she get four episodes off so she could do some other work. After all, as we saw in the final product, the station commander wasn't needed in all the eps anyway. Attempts to villify either JMS or CC on this are ungrounded in fact, IMO.

                          I also wouldn't put too much trust in what either JMS or CC were saying in the heat of the moment (like JMS's outrage that CC was attempting to "renegotiate contracts in mid-stream" when in the next paragraph he notes that she didn't have a contract).

                          And CRONAN, next time, save the 'trons. If you don't want to read this, don't.
                          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And CRONAN, next time, save the 'trons. If you don't want to read this, don't
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Well, obviously Im reading this forum, so it follows I must want to.

                            And plz clarify; what the heck is a 'tron?
                            Last edited by CRONAN; 04-14-2004, 01:12 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here is a link to a quote from JMS...

                              Here is one of the "favored nation" quotes. They aren't that hard to find.

                              http://groups.google.com/groups?q=jm...BARRETT&rnum=3

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