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  • Anders
    replied
    I really think Season 5 was brilliant, it's a shame you didn't like it that much.

    Originally posted by Ranger1
    now all i have to do is to wait for the telemovies DVD's,Crusade box and of course the new project
    Has anyone seen any specific dates or have any good guesses when these DVD sets will come out, and will any of them include Legend of the Rangers?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ranger1
    replied
    Just finished watching Season 5 DVD...wow...the last time i cried was in 1999 when SiL saw the light ( ) of day,and now...damn thats one hard episode to watch again, i tried to avoid it since it was aired.

    As a whole Season 5 was really weak,most of the episodes are political based and thus very boring,but few episodes i completely forgot about and they really kick a** (Day of the Dead,The Fall of Centauri Prime).

    The bonus material as usual as the other 4 DVD box sets are pretty weak,although the 3 extended scenes from SiL were nice as the Marcus Cole Dead or Frozen.

    I hope in the not so distance future we will see a re-release of these amazing seasons with a digital cleanup (they really look awful :Grainy,spots etc...)

    But bottom line i enjoyed them all,im proud to have the Babylon 5 Boxes sitting next to me.
    now all i have to do is to wait for the telemovies DVD's,Crusade box and of course the new project

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin
    An ex-alcoholic-drug-addict from a troubled family and a overprivlidged diplomat son who ran away to go visit the Dahli Lhama cause he felt like it do not seem the type to jump impulsively into marriage? Then who does? ;-)

    You're seeing them as what they became, not as who they were, and keep in mind that some of the bad choices (i.e. rushing off into marriage) might have had profound consequences as for who they turned out to be.
    They had both just finished years of study in a military academy, and Sheridan at least had worked hard for a long time to get there. Hardly the stuff of which impulsiveness is made.

    I know that there are people who get married on a whim and then imediately divorce, but I don't think even 250 years in the future that is the action of anyone who wants a military career. Shacking up and breaking up, yeah. But marriage and divorce involve all kinds of military paperwork, and you aren't going to impress anyone by making your CO and admin staff go through that paperwork twice in a coupla months!

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    Agreed. Neither of them seem the type to marry as impulsively as was implied in the series... nor the type to quickly divorce when they hit some shoals.
    An ex-alcoholic-drug-addict from a troubled family and a overprivlidged diplomat son who ran away to go visit the Dahli Lhama cause he felt like it do not seem the type to jump impulsively into marriage? Then who does? ;-)

    You're seeing them as what they became, not as who they were, and keep in mind that some of the bad choices (i.e. rushing off into marriage) might have had profound consequences as for who they turned out to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
    I can believe Lochley as an ex-girl friend but not as an ex-wife. Ex-wives come with too much bureaucracy. President Clarke's people would have made her life a hell.
    Agreed. Neither of them seem the type to marry as impulsively as was implied in the series... nor the type to quickly divorce when they hit some shoals.

    It was an awfully awkward plot device, and I think JMS can only claim desperation as a defence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anders
    replied
    I just finished watching season 5 on DVD, and even if I have seen it on TV before, seeing it again just strenghtened my feelings for the series. It really was remarkable. I hope this new project will be something just as fantastic!

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
    I can believe Lochley as an ex-girl friend but not as an ex-wife. Ex-wives come with too much bureaucracy. President Clarke's people would have made her life a hell.
    That's pretty doubtful if they hadn't been married for over 20 years, which would have been the case for Lochley. Plus the marriage was probably annuled, which really limits a lot of the bureaucracy in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    I can believe Lochley as an ex-girl friend but not as an ex-wife. Ex-wives come with too much bureaucracy. President Clarke's people would have made her life a hell.

    Leave a comment:


  • iamsheridan
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin
    [...]
    Could there have been a better connection? Perhaps, but I think JMS wanted to really make her part of the family, and that was the quickest and easiest way of doing it, especially considering that there a *lot* of new viewers to the show, and jms must have been eager to tie the characters together through something anyone could easily understand and see the weight of: marriage.
    I think it was "too easy" to make her the ex. But still, it DID make us understand why he trusted her.

    [...]
    Also, not to shoot at you or anything (Lochely is not one of my favourite characters, although I can't say I have any problem with her either), but we are in Hollywood, people are going to be pretty good looking ;P And also Lochely's character is going to try to look her best; that's human nature and nothing wrong about it. And Tracy Scoogins is actually the exact same age as the actress who played the EarthForce commander, so you can't really complain about her being too young
    Oooops
    I hope she doesn't read this! My most sincere apologies to [looking it up] miss Gaven (actually, she's almost a year older than Trace Scoggins! )

    So they were almost 40. Ok, that MIGTH be enough to reach the top ranks...


    And, to be kind of blunt and let my opinion out here for a second, you need someone who has good experience to be able to take on a major part in a already-existing show in it's final season. Say what you want about Lochely, I really do believe Scoogins to be a capable actress who did hold her own.
    I'm not sure about the experience part and I don't agree with your high praise (I can only remember seeing Scoggins as Lois' rival in Lois&Clark).

    And, Anders: no I don't mention my ex-es so often, but sometimes I have to byte my tongue not to go "I once had a girlfriend who..."

    [Adding] Just wanted to say I'm not altogether negative concerning Ms Scoggins' acting abilites. 'Nuf said. I hope.

    /IamS
    Last edited by iamsheridan; 04-22-2004, 05:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Anders
    I saw that Day of the Dead has been listed as both episode 8 and episode 11, why is this?

    Episode 8: http://homepages.ge.ucl.ac.uk/~jmorley/b5_poll.html
    Episode 11: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/eplist.html#season5

    It's also episode 8 on the DVD's.
    I think it has to do with when it aired. From the Lurker's Guide, JMS said:
    We felt it wise to adjust the airing order so we could ramp up the following episodes prior to the NBA delay without having any interruption in the tone of the episodes (i.e., 2 tense, 1 funny, 2 tense vs 1 funny and 4 tense in a row).

    and

    We suggested moving up DotD because the NBA playoffs will hit after #12, and better to have 3-4 intense episodes in a row, culminating in 12, than to break up the middle, which would've been okay as a respite if there wasn't going to be a break, but since there is a break now, I want to slam the last few before it hits for more impact.
    The actual production number is 511.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Anders wrote:
    It just seems that most things that have happened after season 4 has gotten unfairly much criticism.
    I agree completely with that. And I tend to think it's not due to any real faults of the season/episodes/movies, it's because they're *different*. People criticized 'Thirdspace' because it wasn't arc-related, it had a different feel etc. It was different because it's something JMS wanted to play with; just as he's played and experimented throughout B5.

    I keep seeing people wishing for a new series or miniseries or trilogy because 'it's the arc that's so special about B5'. I'm not slamming that because I agree that it's *one* of the things that's so special. But if I know JMS, there were plenty of arc-related things set up in Crusade and Season 5 and even LoTR that if we watch and listen, we may just see progressing. That's what I think is so special about B5-that it rewards watching multiple times.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Anders
    replied
    Thank you for your reply Jan.

    Originally posted by Jan
    Somebody mentioned recently that perhaps it was Byron's followers that people disliked.
    I can understand that, although there have been several characters in Babylon 5 we haven't gotten to know well. These guys did seem to suddenly appear in a lot of episodes though, and only Byron was talking. Then there was also the singing scene.

    As for Byron himself though, I don't think he is especially annoying, and find his character quite interesting. I respect that other people might feel differently of course, but if the criticism was just for the actor/character, I found it a bit odd.

    Originally posted by Jan
    I agree completely that the dislike of Lochley was almost entirely a backlash from the fact that she was slotted into Ivanova's job.
    It was a shame she left the show. Tracy Scoggins did a fine job as Lochley though, and she was an interesting character from the second she walked into the show. Even the part about her previous relationship with Sheridan was ok. They were only married for three months, at the beginning of their military career. It's obvious that he would trust her more that way, than in almost any other way. He wanted someone from the "other" side during the war, so she was the perfect choice. I heard on one of the DVD commentaries in an earlier season, that Bruce Boxleitner didn't like that particulary story, but I disagree. I think it works fine.

    Iamsheridan how often do you mention your old girlfriends that you dated for a few months, to people you have gotten to know afterwards? When he just started out at Babylon 5 there was nothing he would need her for, and when they broke free from earth, she was on the other side, another reason not to mention her.

    Originally posted by Jan
    The loss of Crusade couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fans.
    &

    Originally posted by Jan
    Technically, that LoTR didn't go to series couldn't have anything to do with the fan's dislike of change.
    I knew I would get these answers, so it was a bit stupid of me to ask the question in the way I did. I've read JMS comments on why they didn't succeed.

    However, I have read numerous criticisms from fans about the characters and plots on the two. Jerry Doyle also mentioned something in a commentary, about B5 never working with another cast than the original one.

    Originally posted by Jan
    To be fair, though, the fans certainly accepted plenty of changes over the course of B5, too. Sinclair/Sheridan, Talia/Lyta, adding Marcus.
    True.

    Talia was set up to be the bad guy though, so it wasn't that hard to see her go.

    Marcus is impossible not to like. By the end of season 4, any B5 fan would be sad to see him go/die. I really believe that.

    Sinclair/Sheridan, that was the big one. In a way they are as similar & as different, as Lochley and Ivanova is to eachother. This was also the change that it was hardest for me to accept. I am usually very open to change, but I had grown quite fond of Sinclair. Bruce did a fantastic job though, and season 2 just got more and more interesting as the episodes went by. By the middle of the season, I accepted the change completely, although a part of me will always miss Sinclair as B5 captain.

    I am not saying that B5 fans are bad or anything like that, I am one myself, and I have been so for many years now. It just seems that most things that have happened after season 4 has gotten unfairly much criticism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin
    replied
    The reason you mentioned for disliking her is the main reason why JMS never made reference to it ever again during the tenure of Season 5: fans hated it

    But I don't think it was out of character for him not to mention her... like he said, she was barely married to him at all. And Anna had been such an important part of his life by the time he was on B5... to be blunt, Lochely to him probably at all didn't seem to deserve to be on the same level as Anna. Anna was his *wife* to him at the time, wheras Lochely was a mistake.

    Could there have been a better connection? Perhaps, but I think JMS wanted to really make her part of the family, and that was the quickest and easiest way of doing it, especially considering that there a *lot* of new viewers to the show, and jms must have been eager to tie the characters together through something anyone could easily understand and see the weight of: marriage.

    Also, not to shoot at you or anything (Lochely is not one of my favourite characters, although I can't say I have any problem with her either), but we are in Hollywood, people are going to be pretty good looking ;P And also Lochely's character is going to try to look her best; that's human nature and nothing wrong about it. And Tracy Scoogins is actually the exact same age as the actress who played the EarthForce commander, so you can't really complain about her being too young And, to be kind of blunt and let my opinion out here for a second, you need someone who has good experience to be able to take on a major part in a already-existing show in it's final season. Say what you want about Lochely, I really do believe Scoogins to be a capable actress who did hold her own.

    Christ, can't believe I just wrote a big Lochely defending post. Times have changed :P And when I look back on it... I really agree with both points. I think the Ivanova backlash Jan mentions was the biggest thing, but the Sheridan's ex wife thing certainly didn't help out much at all ;P

    Leave a comment:


  • Anders
    replied
    I watched five more episodes yesterday, so I have now seen the first eigth episodes. As always all the episodes were really good. A View From the Gallery, the episode with two station personell, named Mack and Bo, was quite original and funny, I liked it.

    I saw that Day of the Dead has been listed as both episode 8 and episode 11, why is this?

    Episode 8: http://homepages.ge.ucl.ac.uk/~jmorley/b5_poll.html
    Episode 11: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/eplist.html#season5

    It's also episode 8 on the DVD's.

    Leave a comment:


  • iamsheridan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan
    I agree completely that the dislike of Lochley was almost entirely a backlash from the fact that she was slotted into Ivanova's job. Though I don't think that Tracey handled humor as well as Claudia, I thought she did a great job in fleshing out her character in a very short time. Due to the Claudia situation, I don't think she was ever given a fair chance.

    Jan
    Spoilers concerning Lochley follow...


    s


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    I disliked Lochley because of the fact that she was -- SHERIDANS EX WIFE!

    Had he just once during the past three years used the frase "My ex-wive this and that" (not meaning Anna, of course) I would have been happy.

    To explain the trust that Sheridan puts in Lochley JMS could have let Sheridan serve under her when she was just a lowley lieutenant or something like that, or her family being friends with his (or Anna's!) family, or she being the liaison on Minbar or...
    Do I need to go on?

    And of course she suffers from the "Last Action Hero" syndrome: she's too young and beautiful for the job! I would have liked to see (e.g.) the female Earth Force captain who surrendered at the Battle of Proxima 3. She was equally beautiful but of a more "realistic" age.

    Just my 2c

    /IamS

    Leave a comment:

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