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  • Crusade Episode Order????

    Looking at various sources i have discovered that there is some disagreement as to the "correct" order of episodes. i have found three lists:

    Original Broadcast Order
    1. War Zone
    2. The Long Road
    3. The Well of Forever
    4. The Path of Sorrows
    5. Patterns of the Soul
    6. Ruling from the Tomb
    7. The Rules of the Game
    8. Appearances and Other Deceits
    9. Racing the Night
    10. The Memory of War
    11. The Needs of Earth
    12. Visitors from Down the Street
    13. Each Night I Dream of Home


    Revised Broadcast Order
    1. Racing the Night
    2. The Needs of Earth
    3. The Memory of War
    4. The Long Road
    5. Visitors from Down the Street
    6. The Well of Forever
    7. Each Night I Dream of Home
    8. Patterns of the Soul
    9. The Path of Sorrows
    10. Ruling from the Tomb
    11. The Rules of the Game
    12. War Zone
    13. Appearances and Other Deceits


    Chronological Order
    1. War Zone
    2. The Long Road
    3. Appearances and Other Deceits
    4. The Memory of War
    5. The Needs of Earth
    6. Racing the Night
    7. Visitors from Down the Street
    8. Each Night I Dream of Home
    9. The Path of Sorrows
    10. Patterns of the Soul
    11. Ruling from the Tomb
    12. The Well of Forever
    13. The Rules of the Game


    So, My question is what is the best order in which to watch the episodes and how does watching the episodes out the original sequence affect the continuity of the, albeit limited, storyline?

  • #2
    Because not all of the planned episodes for S1 were ever filmed, and because some of the unfilmed episodes were intended to air in between episodes that were filmed, and because TNT made some irrational demands in the middle of shooting what was shot, there is no "best" or "correct" order. JMS had also planned reshoots and line dubbing in some cases to paper over the seams left in the story by the changes, but these never happened, either.

    The original airdate order is worthless. It bunched all 8 "new uniform" shows at the start of the season, regardless of chronology, character development and logic.

    The revised airdate order is JMS's preferred order. It ignores the change in uniforms, and plays 11 of the episodes in the best available order. "War Zone", which JMS would have preferred not to do at all, was shoved near the back of the order. "Appearances" which is half the explanatoin for the uniform change that JMS was ignoring was slotted in as the last episode in part because it was now irrelevant, and in part so that the Sci-Fi Channel's first run of the series didn't end on an episode that sucked. ("War Zone") I suspect the JMS would have preferred "War Zone" not be aired at all, but Sci-Fi was paying for all 13 episodes and they were certainly going to air it, so he made the best of a bad situation when they asked him what order to use.

    The "chronological" order you found doesn't work any better than the TNT order. In story terms it really makes sense to ignore the uniform change and forget "War Zone" was ever filmed.

    For anyone coming to Crusade for the first time, I would actually recommend something entirely different - simply watch the first five episodes filmed, in the order they were shot.

    Racing the Night
    The Memory of War
    The Needs of Earth
    Visitors from Down the Street
    Each Night I Dream of Home


    These are the closest thing JMS's idea of what the show should have been. That should be everyone's introduction to the series, without any overlay of the later episodes and TNT's ideas.

    Then watch the whole series in JMS's preferred order. (I suppose everyone should watch "War Zone" once, just to see its sheer awfulness and redundancy, then never watch it again. )

    Regards,

    Joe
    Joseph DeMartino
    Sigh Corps
    Pat Tallman Division

    Comment


    • #3
      Thaks for that ill watch it in the order you suggested. Why did u think "War Zone" was a bad episode?, i thought it was quite good although slightly over dramatized in places (EG Gideon saying that when he went on the mission he would do what ever he had to)

      Comment


      • #4
        Let's just say that opening the series with a mutiny on board Gideon's ship was *not* JMS's idea. Nor was the public domain riot footage which TNT insisted on to show the Earth in crisis. That episode was mandated after production had been shut down and if JMS didn't do as he was told, the implication was that production might not be started up again.

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Why did u think "War Zone" was a bad episode?
          It was mostly unnecessary and too literal-minded. Nearly all of the backstory it imparts was already covered in ACtA, except for how each member of the team was added to the mission - which because of the set-up had to happen all at once and in the Sol system. This undercut JMS's plan to start the series about six months into the mission and show how several key members had joined the expedition in progress via flashbacks. (Eilerson, in particular, was supposed to have been more-or-less shanghaied by Gideon, which makes his outside status more plausible.) The episode simply had no reason to exist and was a waste of celluloid and everybody's time. The tiny parts of it that were actually new mostly sucked.

          Regards,

          Joe
          Joseph DeMartino
          Sigh Corps
          Pat Tallman Division

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
            It was mostly unnecessary and too literal-minded. Nearly all of the backstory it imparts was already covered in ACtA, except for how each member of the team was added to the mission - which because of the set-up had to happen all at once and in the Sol system. This undercut JMS's plan to start the series about six months into the mission and show how several key members had joined the expedition in progress via flashbacks. (Eilerson, in particular, was supposed to have been more-or-less shanghaied by Gideon, which makes his outside status more plausible.) The episode simply had no reason to exist and was a waste of celluloid and everybody's time. The tiny parts of it that were actually new mostly sucked.

            Regards,

            Joe
            Oh, you're too hard on it, Joe.

            Eilerson, in particular, had some very good scenes in War Zone. In fact, your usual avatar is of Eilerson from War Zone. Personally, I find Ruling from the Tomb to be worse.

            However, truer words were never spoken when you say that the episode simply had no reason to exist. Were it not for War Zone, Value Judgements (the Bester episode) would have gotten filmed. Then, if To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line had gotten filmed, I expect a lot of people's opinions of Crusade would be quite a bit higher.
            Last edited by KoshN; 12-26-2006, 08:48 AM.
            Mac Breck (KoshN)
            ------------------
            Warner Brothers is Lucy.
            JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
            Babylon 5 is the football.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is a little confusing. I was under the impression that Crusade never aired, TNT just wanted to make some cash off this incomplete series hoping the B5 fans would buy it like the B5 series. I guess I missed a memo somewhere.
              Ranger Code

              We walk in the places no others will enter.
              We do not break away from combat.
              We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
              We do not retreat whatever the reason.
              We live for The One, we die for The One.

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh, it most certainly aired; hell, if you hadn't been keeping up with the drama on the nets, you'd have no way of knowing that it was pretty much coming to you served dead upon arrival.

                For me personally, I didn't even know there was stuff going on with it until "Each Night I Dream of Earth" was advertised as the *final* episode.

                Afterwards I went online and checked up about it and man... there's only been a few times in my life when I've been that disappointed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kevin View Post
                  Oh, it most certainly aired; hell, if you hadn't been keeping up with the drama on the nets, you'd have no way of knowing that it was pretty much coming to you served dead upon arrival.

                  For me personally, I didn't even know there was stuff going on with it until "Each Night I Dream of Earth" was advertised as the *final* episode.

                  Afterwards I went online and checked up about it and man... there's only been a few times in my life when I've been that disappointed
                  According to the DVD box copyright date of 1998, I was probably still stationed Yokosuka, Japan when it aired. I didn't get back to the States 'till later in the year when I transferred to Norfolk, Virginia. I remember watching a few episodes of B5 on SciFi when I could, but didn't know about Crusade 'till a couple years ago.
                  Ranger Code

                  We walk in the places no others will enter.
                  We do not break away from combat.
                  We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                  We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                  We live for The One, we die for The One.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
                    This is a little confusing. I was under the impression that Crusade never aired, TNT just wanted to make some cash off this incomplete series hoping the B5 fans would buy it like the B5 series. I guess I missed a memo somewhere.
                    Crusade did air. TNT aired the Grey/Red Uniform episodes (which I colored grey, below) last. Those are the five that JoeD suggested watching first. What TNT did was call it a "Limited Series" ...like it was always planned to be 13 episodes. TNT also tried to prevent post production on the grey unifom episodes from ever being completed, so those episodes would never see the light of day. However, Warner Bros. forced them to allow production to be completed on the five grey uniform episodes.

                    The following includes notes about some of the things going on at the time, on TNT and in the real world, which might have impacted Crusade ratings*. At the time, you had to be a bit dedicated to even find Crusade.

                    TNT Order:
                    “War Zone” 06/09/1999
                    “The Long Road” 06/16/1999 (1st game of NBA finals)
                    “The Well of Forever” 06/23/1999 (4th game of NBA finals)
                    “The Path of Sorrows” 06/30/1999 (NBA Draft, so Crusade started at Midnight)
                    “Patterns of the Soul” 07/07/1999
                    “Ruling from the Tomb” 07/14/1999
                    “The Rules of the Game” 07/21/1999 (JFK Jr. plane crash)
                    “Appearances and Other Deceits” 07/28/1999
                    “Racing the Night” 08/04/1999
                    “The Memory of War” 08/11/1999
                    “The Needs of Earth” 08/18/1999
                    “Visitors from Down the Street” 08/25/1999
                    “Each Night I Dream of Home” 09/01/1999

                    * This was back in the day when we thought it might succeed if it made good ratings. We didn't know then that no matter what ratings it made (unless they were utterly spectacular), that Crusade was dead before it ever aired.
                    Last edited by KoshN; 01-09-2007, 08:05 PM.
                    Mac Breck (KoshN)
                    ------------------
                    Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                    JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                    Babylon 5 is the football.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kevin View Post
                      Oh, it most certainly aired; hell, if you hadn't been keeping up with the drama on the nets, you'd have no way of knowing that it was pretty much coming to you served dead upon arrival.

                      For me personally, I didn't even know there was stuff going on with it until "Each Night I Dream of Earth" was advertised as the *final* episode.

                      Afterwards I went online and checked up about it and man... there's only been a few times in my life when I've been that disappointed
                      Originally posted by KoshN View Post
                      Crusade did air. TNT aired the Grey/Red Uniform episodes (which I colored grey, below) last. Those are the five that JoeD suggested watching first. What TNT did was call it a "Limited Series" ...like it was always planned to be 13 episodes. TNT also tried to prevent post production on the grey unifom episodes from ever being completed, so they'd never see the light of day. However, Warner Bros. forced them to allow production to be completed on the five grey uniform episodes.

                      The following includes notes about some of the things going on at the time, on TNT and in the real world, which might have impacted Crusade ratings. At the time, you had to be a bit dedicated to even find Crusade.

                      TNT Order:
                      ôWar Zoneö 06/09/1999
                      ôThe Long Roadö 06/16/1999 (1st game of NBA finals)
                      ôThe Well of Foreverö 06/23/1999 (4th game of NBA finals)
                      ôThe Path of Sorrowsö 06/30/1999 (NBA Draft, so Crusade started at Midnight)
                      ôPatterns of the Soulö 07/07/1999
                      ôRuling from the Tombö 07/14/1999
                      ôThe Rules of the Gameö 07/21/1999 (JFK Jr. plane crash)
                      ôAppearances and Other Deceitsö 07/28/1999
                      ôRacing the Nightö 08/04/1999
                      ôThe Memory of Warö 08/11/1999
                      ôThe Needs of Earthö 08/18/1999
                      ôVisitors from Down the Streetö 08/25/1999
                      ôEach Night I Dream of Homeö 09/01/1999
                      Thanks for the info Kosh but I was still in Japan when these episodes aired. We didn't get TV regular programming like in the States except for the news. As for TV shows, we would get them two or three years later after first broadcast. Armed Forces Radio Television Service (AFRTS) couldn't afford a single episode of a first-run series like Friends without wiping out their entire budget for the year, and we didn't get cable TV shows at all, regardless of how old they were.
                      Ranger Code

                      We walk in the places no others will enter.
                      We do not break away from combat.
                      We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                      We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                      We live for The One, we die for The One.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
                        Thanks for the info Kosh but I was still in Japan when these episodes aired. We didn't get TV regular programming like in the States except for the news. As for TV shows, we would get them two or three years later after first broadcast. Armed Forces Radio Television Service (AFRTS) couldn't afford a single episode of a first-run series like Friends without wiping out their entire budget for the year, and we didn't get cable TV shows at all, regardless of how old they were.
                        Understood. I'd read your earlier post about that, but was just presenting you with a couple of the details of what happened.
                        Last edited by KoshN; 01-09-2007, 08:16 PM.
                        Mac Breck (KoshN)
                        ------------------
                        Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                        JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                        Babylon 5 is the football.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KoshN View Post
                          Understood. I'd read your earlier post about that, but was just presenting you with some of the details of what happened.
                          Not a problem, I appreciate the info you provided, especially the dates.

                          I have to make a modification here. I wasn't in Japan but on deployment during those dates. I didn't get back from deployment 'till October 1999. Sorry about the confusion there.
                          Last edited by JohnFourtyTwo; 01-10-2007, 07:20 PM.
                          Ranger Code

                          We walk in the places no others will enter.
                          We do not break away from combat.
                          We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                          We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                          We live for The One, we die for The One.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A "Limited Series" .....

                            "Renegade Rangers" ..... except that TNT pretty much eliminated the Rangers from the show (in the filmed later, Black uniform episodes), and the crew never got a chance to be renegade.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by KoshN; 01-09-2007, 08:46 PM.
                            Mac Breck (KoshN)
                            ------------------
                            Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                            JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                            Babylon 5 is the football.

                            Comment

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