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  • #16
    Please forgive my ignorance, but why would it be a financial nightmare? I understand they would have to decide on how to exactly split the profits, but why would this be more of a nightmare than any other project that requires profits to be split between multiple people?

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    • #17
      Well, I'm no expert in the whole Cafe' Press thing but I know that they have incentives that they pay (or credit? Not sure) to high-volume sellers. How would you determine what portion of an incentive would go to whom when it's calculated on (I assume) the entire volume of sales for a given period. That would include all of the quote gear. A payment of a fraction of the price per book sold would be easiest but not necessarily fair and you'd still need to calculate how many books were sold at the discount period versus how many sold for full price. And which party would pay for the extra bookkeeping involved?

      In addition, the writers have the right to publish their own scripts. In order for him to publish anybody else's scripts, they'd have to transfer that right to him, temporarily at least, and for that sort of thing there's generally lawyers involve.

      JMS said from the beginning:

      going out and making separate deals with everybody else would be a
      major pain in the butt just given the logistics.
      ...and he knows a whole lot more about it, I'm sure.

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        We can be pretty sure that Fiona's scripts won't be in the books JMS is doing. It would just be a financial nightmare for everybody. I've heard from various fans that Fiona has been made aware of JMS's project so there's the chance that she'll follow up and publish all of her Crusade scripts.

        Jan
        How many scripts would that be?
        ---
        Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
        www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by thebaron View Post
          How many scripts would that be?
          Two produced - 'The Well of Forever' and 'Patterns of the Soul'
          One unproduced - 'Value Judgments'
          One assigned but as far as anybody can tell, unwritten - 'Tried and True'

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Jan View Post
            Two produced - 'The Well of Forever' and 'Patterns of the Soul'
            One unproduced - 'Value Judgments'
            One assigned but as far as anybody can tell, unwritten - 'Tried and True'

            Jan
            Thanks Jan. I knew about Value Judgments but was unaware that she also wrote WoF and PotS. Ironically, I'm very non-observant about that kind of thing.
            ---
            Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
            www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

            Comment


            • #21
              Happy to help. I also note that The 2 produced Fiona scripts plus the one Peter David script leaves ten produced JMS scripts. Add in his two unproduced scripts and 'A Call to Arms' and voila', you've got 2 seven-hour script books just as the tradition has been. Assuming he does it that way, of course. 'A Call to Arms' might end up in a movie volume instead.

              However it works, I'm quite looking forward to the behind-the-scenes stories of Crusade!

              Jan
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jan View Post
                However it works, I'm quite looking forward to the behind-the-scenes stories of Crusade!
                Why? Might they be controversial?
                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                • #23
                  Oh, I'm sure that JMS will be the calm, diplomatic soul we've always known...

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jan View Post
                    Oh, I'm sure that JMS will be the calm, diplomatic soul we've always known...

                    Jan
                    There's another person with the initials JMS that we all know?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sure...me. Jan M. Schroeder



                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        we have our very own jms on the forum
                        so, any plans for a 5-year arced series produced by an evil telvision company (perhaps named after a certain red-tailed mammal with a fondness for chickens?)
                        Phaze
                        on the "never knowingly on topic, digressions are fun" ID
                        "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jan View Post
                          Two produced - 'The Well of Forever' and 'Patterns of the Soul'
                          One unproduced - 'Value Judgments'
                          One assigned but as far as anybody can tell, unwritten - 'Tried and True'

                          Jan
                          Well, it would make a slim volume, but perhaps she could include an outline or brief of what the episode would have been to pad out a few more pages.
                          Got movies? www.filmbuffonline.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I too would love to see the return of Crusade. It seemed like all the characters had a hidden and dark past that would have slowly been revealed if the ass clowns at TNT hadn't interfered. Not to mention that I'm dying to know what the deal was with that apocalypse box that Gideon had.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Just Saw

                              I just watched Crusade for the first time. I don't know that it would have been the triumph that B5 was, but it certaintly deserved a shot. And listening to JMS's usual outstanding commentary on episode 9 made me lament that we never got to see what he had planned.

                              What's amazing is the difference between the "last" (first) five episodes and the rest of the series. Those other five have more of the JMS feel - big concepts, epic scale, moral dilemmas. I loved the music, the Excalibur herself and the shapes the characters were taking, although I found Eileson annoying. Peter Woodward was particularly outstanding - it's not easy to effectively portray a character who is as over the top as Galen without venturing into camp.

                              The other eight episodes continually show the grubby pawmarks of the network. The opening fistfight in War Zone, in particular, was so out of universe for JMS - and I understand that particular scene was insisted upon by TNT.

                              To be honest, I can see why TNT cancelled it. They like their drama safe and secure and Crusade was downright subversive (as was B5). I'm actually amazed they green-lighted it in the first place. It's a pity that it wasn't financed by someone like the Sci-Fi Channel or HBO, who tend be a bit more daring . . . and hence more successful.

                              I think graphic novels/comic books would be great way to continue the story, but I just don't see it happening.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                I just watched Crusade for the first time. I don't know that it would have been the triumph that B5 was, but it certaintly deserved a shot. And listening to JMS's usual outstanding commentary on episode 9 made me lament that we never got to see what he had planned.

                                What's amazing is the difference between the "last" (first) five episodes and the rest of the series. Those other five have more of the JMS feel - big concepts, epic scale, moral dilemmas. I loved the music, the Excalibur herself and the shapes the characters were taking,
                                However, the JMS feel comes through in all of them, even "War Zone."



                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                ....although I found Eileson annoying.
                                Eilerson grows on you, over time. It helps to see the episodes in the correct Eilerson order, because he gets less arrogant, less annoying and more human. Witness the scenes near the end of "Appearances and Other Deceits" when he's talking to Dr. Chambers about the use of Greenberg's body, the scene near the end of "Patterns of the Soul" when even under pressure from IPX, he deletes the part of his report that talks about the discovery of the lost tribe of Dureena's people, and what he does to save his ex-wife in "The Rules of the Game." Eilerson's not so bad.




                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                Peter Woodward was particularly outstanding - it's not easy to effectively portray a character who is as over the top as Galen without venturing into camp.
                                Galen was my favorite character from the get go, and still is. Some people, especially in the UK, can't stand Peter Woodward as Galen, and find him highly annoying. It seems to be a US/UK difference.

                                I didn't particularly like Gideon, Eilerson or Matheson when I saw Crusade in first run on TNT in 1999, but I've grown to like them all. The characters I like the least have always been Capt. Lochley (who always seems stiff to me) and Dr. Chambers. I've always liked Dureena. Trace Miller improved greatly in "Ruling from the Tomb."



                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                The other eight episodes continually show the grubby pawmarks of the network. The opening fistfight in War Zone, in particular, was so out of universe for JMS - and I understand that particular scene was insisted upon by TNT.
                                As other people can tell you here and elsewhere, I am not one to reflexively defend TNT. (Good grief, is that ever an understatement! ) However, I think, "The Path of Sorrows," an episode from "the rest of the series," was quite good, and in fact, one of the best they made. I rate The "Path of Sorrows" slightly higher than "Racing the Night" or "The Memory of War."

                                Of the eight episodes after the five grey uniform episodes, I think the following come through pretty much without the "grubby pawmarks of the network":

                                ôThe Long Roadö
                                ôThe Well of Foreverö (JMS did not do what TNT wanted with Dureena and Mr. Jones, and I thought most of the dialogue was great. The bit with The Fen was well, ...cheapening.)
                                ôThe Path of Sorrowsö (Yes, TNT wanted the subtitles, but I didn't find that particularly bad. Would have preferred it done with audio on the alien's part, as via telepathy.)
                                ôPatterns of the Soulö
                                ôRuling from the Tombö (Didn't care for this ep. but I don't see TNT's influence.)



                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                To be honest, I can see why TNT cancelled it. They like their drama safe and secure and Crusade was downright subversive (as was B5). I'm actually amazed they green-lighted it in the first place. It's a pity that it wasn't financed by someone like the Sci-Fi Channel or HBO, who tend be a bit more daring . . . and hence more successful.
                                TNT cancelled Crusade for purely business reasons. Their traditional audience doesn't like sci-fi, and by and large the sci-fi loving audience does not like traditional TNT fare. The audiences are pretty much mutually exclusive, and so neither Babylon 5 or Crusade was building an audience for TNT. Crusade did not get cancelled because of Crusade, itself. Crusade got cancelled because TNT is not a sci-fi friendly network.




                                Originally posted by Hal_10000 View Post
                                I think graphic novels/comic books would be great way to continue the story, but I just don't see it happening.
                                I think regular novels would be a better way to continue the story, but that isn't going to happen, either.
                                Mac Breck (KoshN)
                                ------------------
                                Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                                JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                                Babylon 5 is the football.

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