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  • Gathering KOSH interesting

    i'm watchign the gathering again and i just saw the lyta and kosh part

    when she is in kosh's mind koshs words to sinclair are "entilzah valen!!" i had never noticed that before

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lunan
    i'm watchign the gathering again and i just saw the lyta and kosh part

    when she is in kosh's mind koshs words to sinclair are "entilzah valen!!" i had never noticed that before
    Kosh was not speaking to Sinclair. Lyta was hearing Kosh's thoughts. (Notice we don't hear the musical tone of Kosh's translator.) But since so many people thougth exactly what you did on first hearing the line, it appears that JMS may have been too subtle in making this point.

    Kosh recognized Sinclair as Valen, whom he had known 1,000 years before. But he would never have risked the future by saying that out loud.

    The "thought balloon" did not appear in the original version of the pilot. (Kosh had no dialogue, so no one was even cast to provide a voice for the character at that point.) JMS has said that it was in the script, but that he cut it early on because he thought it would be a spoiler. (The original plan being to go right into production on the series, with The Gathering airing just a week before the first episode instead of about a year earlier.)

    Regards,

    Joe
    Last edited by Joseph DeMartino; 12-23-2006, 11:16 PM.
    Joseph DeMartino
    Sigh Corps
    Pat Tallman Division

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino View Post
      Kosh was not speaking to Sinclair. Lyta was hearing Kosh's thoughts. (Notice we don't hear the musical tone of Kosh's translator.) But since so many people thougth exactly what you did on first hearing the line, it appears that JMS may have been too subtle in making this point.

      Kosh recognized Sinclair as Valen, whom he had known 1,000 years before. But he would never have risked the future by saying that out loud.

      The "thought balloon" did not appear in the original version of the pilot. (Kosh had no dialogue, so no one was even cast to provide a voice for the character at that point.) JMS has said that it was in the script, but that he cut it early on because he thought it would be a spoiler. (The original plan being to go right into production on the series, with The Gathering airing just a week before the first episode instead of about a year earlier.)

      Regards,

      Joe
      I never noticed this so I had to watch that episode again. Thanks!

      Now I'm wondering what else I'm missing?
      Ranger Code

      We walk in the places no others will enter.
      We do not break away from combat.
      We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
      We do not retreat whatever the reason.
      We live for The One, we die for The One.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
        I never noticed this so I had to watch that episode again. Thanks!

        Now I'm wondering what else I'm missing?
        Probably a whole load of cool stuff ... just like the rest of us have done over the years.

        The Optimist: The glass is half full
        The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
        The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

        Comment


        • #5
          I've watched the entire series three times so far, twice back-to-back this past month. I was working on a fourth time before my two DVD players decided to crap-out on me. Seems to be a problem with multi-layer DVDs because the normal DVDs still play without a problem. Oh well, I'll be getting a new DVD player soon and will be back on the couch.
          Ranger Code

          We walk in the places no others will enter.
          We do not break away from combat.
          We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
          We do not retreat whatever the reason.
          We live for The One, we die for The One.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
            Now I'm wondering what else I'm missing?
            Here's one that I missed until just yesterday. Remember Bester's elite squadron of starfuries Black Omega? Do you know when we saw them for the first time? Mind War. The sixth episode show (though it was shot as #110) and there it was. Of course Jason Ironheart vaporized them, but they were already established right from the beginning.

            Wow.

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jan View Post
              Here's one that I missed until just yesterday. Remember Bester's elite squadron of starfuries Black Omega? Do you know when we saw them for the first time? Mind War. The sixth episode show (though it was shot as #110) and there it was. Of course Jason Ironheart vaporized them, but they were already established right from the beginning.

              Wow.

              Jan
              I've got to start paying a little more attention to detail because I missed that one too! One thing I did notice when Sheridan meets Bester in his starfury was that he said it had a black omega symbol on it. From the best of my knowledge, the starfury itself was black but the omega symbol was white.
              Ranger Code

              We walk in the places no others will enter.
              We do not break away from combat.
              We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
              We do not retreat whatever the reason.
              We live for The One, we die for The One.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
                One thing I did notice when Sheridan meets Bester in his starfury was that he said it had a black omega symbol on it. From the best of my knowledge, the starfury itself was black but the omega symbol was white.
                But he was referring to the logo of the squadron, not describing the symbol. The squadron is named Black Omega so the symbol on their starfuries is the also called the black omega symbol.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again Jan! I see I have some homework to do.
                  Ranger Code

                  We walk in the places no others will enter.
                  We do not break away from combat.
                  We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                  We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                  We live for The One, we die for The One.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i spotted the black omega thing awhile ago but since i'm fairly new to b5 (2 years or so) i figured it would have been discused to death. now i have to go back over all the things i may have noticed and post em after figuring it out just to see what was already known

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                    • #11
                      Since there are always new fans, don't be self-conscious about posting what you notice. Some of us will know about it and for others it'll be a new revelation.

                      Has there ever been such a show that rewards repeat, alert viewing the way B5 does??

                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jan View Post
                        Since there are always new fans, don't be self-conscious about posting what you notice. Some of us will know about it and for others it'll be a new revelation.

                        Has there ever been such a show that rewards repeat, alert viewing the way B5 does??

                        Jan
                        Very good advice Jan. I'm living proof that I don't know it all, not that ever claimed it. I like being surprised, makes life worth living.

                        To answer your question though, I seriously doubt any other show rewards repeat alert viewing the way B5 does. I may be a bit biased, but that's the way I feel. For the longest time I thought Star Wars and Star Trek were the best things ever, scifi related anyway. When I saw B5 and The Lord of the Rings movies, I had a revelation. I was wrong. I'm not trying to knock the other two creators because I like their work also, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

                        It's unfortunate that it took me so long to get into B5. I was overseas when it first came out and AFRTS (Armed Forces Radio Televison Service) didn't carry it like they did DS9 and I didn't get to see a single epiosode 'till '98 or '99 when it was cancelled. About two years ago I rented the entire series from the beginning from Netflix.com and got hooked. Sometime after the second season I cancelled my Netflix que because they kept sending me the discs out of order so I went out and bought the entire series and movies instead. I've been a pretty happy camper ever since.
                        Ranger Code

                        We walk in the places no others will enter.
                        We do not break away from combat.
                        We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                        We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                        We live for The One, we die for The One.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JohnFourtyTwo View Post
                          I'm not trying to knock the other two creators ...
                          It would only be knocking them if they were attempting that kind of storytelling. I have seen nothing in SW or ST that indicates either Lucas or Roddenberry were trying to create a complex, multi-layered story with a serious amount of foreshadowing going on both in the foreground and background in the way JMS did with B5.

                          Given that they weren't trying to create that, I doubt they would consider it a criticism for someone to point out that they didn't achieve it.



                          And just to correct one misconception ...

                          ... and I didn't get to see a single epiosode 'till '98 or '99 when it was cancelled.
                          B5 didn't get cancelled, it simply finished.
                          The Optimist: The glass is half full
                          The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                          The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair View Post
                            It would only be knocking them if they were attempting that kind of storytelling. I have seen nothing in SW or ST that indicates either Lucas or Roddenberry were trying to create a complex, multi-layered story with a serious amount of foreshadowing going on both in the foreground and background in the way JMS did with B5.

                            Given that they weren't trying to create that, I doubt they would consider it a criticism for someone to point out that they didn't achieve it.



                            And just to correct one misconception ...



                            B5 didn't get cancelled, it simply finished.
                            I stand corrected. Poor choice of words on my part, I meant after it was finished. I was a bit tired when I posted after getting off work, plus I just found out a very good friend of mine just found out she has breast cancer, so I wasn't paying too much attention to detail last night. Sorry.

                            I totally agree that Roddenberry never attempted to create anything complex. He seemed more interested in his version of a Eutopian future than anything else. Lucas on the other hand had pure gold with the original trilogy but severely botched it up with the prequel trilogy.
                            Ranger Code

                            We walk in the places no others will enter.
                            We do not break away from combat.
                            We stand on the bridge and no one may pass.
                            We do not retreat whatever the reason.
                            We live for The One, we die for The One.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ini fairness to Roddenberry there's no reason to believe that even if he had tried to sell more complex story telling that anyone would have bought it. It's only in the last few years the major networks have delved into anything with an arc. They just wouldn't have gone with it.
                              "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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