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  • First One info?

    I'm on a mission to collect every scrap of information pertaining to the First Ones. I've read a lot of the not-quite-canon websites and found the "Darkness and Light" book from Mongoose Publishing to be quite illuminating, but I was wondering what, if any, sources were fully canon and focused on the First Ones.
    Million-year old transcendent civilisations debating the fate of the galaxy use phrases like 'screw both of 'em?'

    I said is was an analogy. According to the organic memory cells found on the Trieste Derelict in 10,033AZ, what they actually said was 'Zog both of them.'

    I think the solar flares are affecting you again.

    Less than four hours until Sol goes Zog!

  • #2
    The only source I can think of that would be completely canon would be what showed up in the show. Most of that would be what Lorien told Sheridan, I think, which isn't much. We don't even have names for most of the ones who showed up at Coriana 6, do we?

    Sorry, wish I could help more.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • #3
      "I don't like having a character that powerful running around the plotline." -- JMS on why he'd got rid of Jason Ironheart and why we'd never see him again.


      Originally posted by Jan
      We don't even have names for most of the ones who showed up at Coriana 6, do we?
      No. I don't think even the scripts give much information. But that isn't really surprising. The First Ones were supposed to be mysterious. Entities billions of years older than us, they would have little in common with us. (As G'Kar says, we are as ants to them. The only reason the Vorlons and the Shadows had anything to do with us is that the Vorlons liked to keep ant farms, and the Shadows enjoyed breaking them and getting the different colonies to fight. ) The rare ones who interacted directly with the Younger Races were careful to do so in disguise, in a form and with a manner that seemed more humanoid. That isn't how they would have interacted with one another - which is one reason you can't really tell stories about such creatures.

      They can only exist on the periphery of stories about people, because stories created for Humans require characters who are at least functionally Human in terms of their feelings, their actions and their motivations. (You may call them hobbits or elves or 'droids or Klingons or they may be rabbits or birds endowed with Human intelligence, but when you come right down to it, they're all Human.) To make beings with such godlike powers characters in a story you either have to make them vague and unapproachable in their native state (the Vorlons, the Shadows, the "Zog", "Doc" Smith's Arisians) or you have to make them so completely Human that their supposed wisdom, power and great age seem implausible (any number of comic book characters, starting with Galactus, the Greek pantheon, "Doc" Smith's Arisians.)

      JMS doesn't say much about them because frankly there isn't very much to say, at least that would be very interesting. The First Ones were once just like us, but after billions of years they became something other. Tell a story about their early days and you're just telling a story about Humans or Minbar or Narn, with different names. The only thing that would make them interesting is that we know where they end up. And you can't tell a story about them, set among them, in the later period. And the series seems to suggest that the transition comes almost all at once, that normal evolution builds to a point and then a combination of technology and will leads a race to take "the next step" (see River of Souls.) So "before" and "after" are pretty much all we've got with regard to First Ones types.

      I think the idea of the First Ones is intriguiging, but the reality isn't the stuff of drama. That why I always chuckle when I see suggestions - as I do every time a new B5 project is being considered - for stories about "the early Vorlon-Shadow wars" or "the First Ones before the Younger Races evolved" or best of all, "the First Ones 'Beyond the Rim'". That last would require depicting two things that cannot and should not be depicted - two things that we do not have the words or images to convey, and which we won't have until we become something like "First Ones" ourselves.

      Regards,

      Joe
      Joseph DeMartino
      Sigh Corps
      Pat Tallman Division

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jan
        We don't even have names for most of the ones who showed up at Coriana 6, do we?
        Erm, I dunno in how far this info is fully canon but I found this on wiki.
        "The First Ones included the transcendant Triad who are second only to Lorien, the telepathic Mindriders, the gambling Torvalus, the ever seeking Walkers of Sigma 957 and the bloodthirsty Kirishiac Lords."
        What's up Drakh?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jan
          We don't even have names for most of the ones who showed up at Coriana 6, do we?
          I have the "Babylon 5 Wars 2nd Edition" Sourcebook (which has a forward from JMS which reads in part: "What I'm saying, in this roundabout way, is that if you want the Real Deal, if you want accuracy, canonical authority, and the best of the best when it comes to BABYLON 5 licensing and gaming...you've come to the right place."

          Take that however you want.

          They list the races as:
          Lorien
          The Vorlons and Shadows
          The Walkers of Sigma 957
          The Kirishiac Lords (the ship reminded me of a gourd w/ 8 orbs around it)
          The Triad (the three-pronged ship, naturally)
          The Torvalus Speculators (I'd have to dig out the DVDs, but I think their ship looked like a club)
          The Mindriders (looks like a four-pronged caltrop)

          FP

          Comment


          • #6
            Right. The Shadows are second to Lorien agewise, but the Triad were the first to ascend, according to "Darkness and Light." The Mindriders were the first natural telepaths (Vorlon telepathy was actually gained through technology)

            and Lorien's race were called the "Speakers."

            Look's like I'm going to order the B5 wars second edition sourcebook tonight!
            Million-year old transcendent civilisations debating the fate of the galaxy use phrases like 'screw both of 'em?'

            I said is was an analogy. According to the organic memory cells found on the Trieste Derelict in 10,033AZ, what they actually said was 'Zog both of them.'

            I think the solar flares are affecting you again.

            Less than four hours until Sol goes Zog!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dustin_S
              and Lorien's race were called the "Speakers."
              Hmm, does that make the fire place in Lorien's cave Speakers Corner?
              What's up Drakh?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dustin_S
                Right. The Shadows are second to Lorien agewise, but the Triad were the first to ascend, according to "Darkness and Light." The Mindriders were the first natural telepaths (Vorlon telepathy was actually gained through technology)

                and Lorien's race were called the "Speakers."

                Look's like I'm going to order the B5 wars second edition sourcebook tonight!
                Gee..the Ori storyline in SG1 is sounding an awful lot like this

                Jon
                Flying Sparks Web Comic - A Hero and Villain In Love. Updates on Wednesdays
                True Believer Reviews: Comic Reviews and Interviews on Wednesdays and Fridays - Or Your Money Back!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I haven't seen SG1 in months- not since (potential spoilers)the four cruisers came through and Valla was pregnant and sam was on that giant stargate that almost blew up and didn't Daniel die again?
                  Million-year old transcendent civilisations debating the fate of the galaxy use phrases like 'screw both of 'em?'

                  I said is was an analogy. According to the organic memory cells found on the Trieste Derelict in 10,033AZ, what they actually said was 'Zog both of them.'

                  I think the solar flares are affecting you again.

                  Less than four hours until Sol goes Zog!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    you missed the dragon then, oh and danny didn't die again. yet anyway. it seems like he will become a being similar to anubus sort of half ascended at least thats the rumor floating about

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lunan
                      you missed the dragon then, oh and danny didn't die again. yet anyway. it seems like he will become a being similar to anubus sort of half ascended at least thats the rumor floating about
                      Thank you very much

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Great Machine should have the answers....

                        Don't forget another B5 fan site, the one with the wiki that aspires to become the primary reference for B5... The Great Machine wiki at Firstones.com

                        What was mentioned above was already there, and with links to pictures of the ships...

                        http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/First_Ones

                        And should any additional info arise, well, it's a wiki, all you need to do is register to add to it, and it will be there for next time the question arises.

                        Another relevant page at firstones.com is in the archive of B5 websites, the "First Ones" description from "Babylon 5: The Place To Be": http://archive.firstones.com/tp2b/misc_firstones.html
                        Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                        James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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