HD Redo of CGI Poll

[WorkerCaste]

Given the discussion in the other thread about redoing the CGI in HD for a new release of B5, I was wondering how many people would actually invest in a new set if WB did decide to do it. What does everyone think?

[Shabaz]

Depends if it is done well, of course. But yes, I think I would.

[Jan]

Not the slightest bit interested. I care about story & character, not effects.

Jan

[Spoo Junky]

Not the slightest bit interested. I care about story & character, not effects.

Jan

Me too. And why buy the same horse just because now it has ribbons on its mane.

[Kloreep]

Now and for the forseeable future? No.

Later, e.g. when I actually have a HDTV? Maybe. Depends on how well it's done.

[Shabaz]

Not the slightest bit interested. I care about story & character, not effects.

Jan

So do I. But effects can work in service of the story and the characters, and I think with B5 they did. Additionally, the widescreen versions we have enhanced the drama and performances by making it look better, clearer, and showing us more detail in an aspect ratio that is both more cinematic, and easier on the eyes. An HD transfer would give us even more detail of those performances, and seeing how much I liked the extra detail of the widescreen versions, giving the B5 episodes another step up in quality, where that extra quality was already shot because of the usage of film, I feel can only be a good thing.

This thread is about a possible CGI reworking though. This was originally intended, if I'm reading these posts from the archives by George Johnsen, who worked at Netter Digital, right:

CG and composites can be rerendered to whatever new rez that is required,

plus the animation files are stored so that they can be recreated and rerendered at whatever resolution is needed

They ended up not doing this because WB's dog ate the files. Redoing it by hand at some point would be next best thing, to me.

Getting the framing right for the comped shots alone would greatly improve the presentation of all these excellent performances to me, and while it is not 'about the effects' for me either, I wouldn't object to them if it was felt that those are what is needed to justify such reworkings.

[Satai Delenn]

I could care less if it was done in HD I only care about the storyline .The effects are not important to me.

[Ranger1]

My vote goes for No, but my answer divides into two.

1. It will be indeed nice to know that there are HD version of B5 out there (and Jan, its not about the effects, its about the joy of seeing it crystal clear and on HD TV).

Those who indeed have HD TV can really enjoy the show in an HD format.

2. the reason i voted no is because i don't plan to buy any kind of HD TV in the near future (im looking 2 years ahead), still very expansive, the really high quality of an HD (1080p\i) will require you to have an HDMI connection that most HD TV that exist today still don't have (yup, that mean you will have to buy yet one more HD TV).

And i enjoy watching movies on my computer, so that would mean:

- A new graphic card that will support HDMI connection.
- A new HD\BR player, which are VERY expansive at the moment.
- A brand new monitor that will also support an HDMI connection (not sure if any exist yet).
- there's an HD\BR test utility that can run and tell you if your computer is capable of displaying HD movies, i have one kick ass computer and i got "failed" (3Ghz, 1GB mem bla bla..) so that means a new computer

So after all of this ill wait, this technology is fairly new and expansive.

[Shabaz]

Yeah, I don't really like the excessive DHCP Digital Rights Management schemes that Blu-ray and HD-DVD employ either (which HDMI ports are a part of). Sadly, it is what we are stuck with if you want HD resolution video.

Most HD television sold today are HDMI compatible though. Only one year ago, what you said would've been totally true, but a lot has happened in that year. Maybe my perspective is skewed, but just about all televisions sold over here in the Netherlands that can handle HD resolutions have an "HD Ready" label on them, which legally requires them to have the proper ports. Still, it is something one should pay attention to when shopping for a new tv.

However, all these DRM restrictions only come into force when the so called "ICT flag" is enabled by the studio publishing a HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie. There are some rumblings that they will not do so until 2010 or 2012, and there have been official announcements by some studios that for now the flag will not be enabled.

[AmyG]

I have to say -- respectfully -- that this subject always makes me laugh a little. If there was something that was grossly wrong with the episodes as they currently exist, I could see someone wanting to do some technical tweaking, but everything looks fine as it is. Could it look better? Probably, but who cares? The story is what I'm interested in. I used to watch black and white Twilight Zones with no effects budget to speak of, and ridiculous camp looking props, but it didn't make those stories one iota less powerful, less masterful, IMHO.

If all someone is interested in is effects, I say they should go and get a demo disk of effects software; you'll probably see some amazing effects there.

[Shabaz]

If there was something that was grossly wrong with the episodes as they currently exist, I could see someone wanting to do some technical tweaking, but everything looks fine as it is.

I actually have And the Sky Full of Stars on DVD in a wrongly mastered form, where the shots were not cropped properly. While I know a lot of you already are aware of the difference, I took some screenshots using that disc and a properly mastered disc to show the difference. I know it's not that big a deal to most people, but, indulge me. I have tried not to resize them, to show the frames as accurately as possible, but my apologies if they are a bit big.

These are shots that pretty much look like they should've originally when they were broadcast in their 4:3 format. It's interlaced as you can see, but the blurryness comes mostly from the way they handled the PAL transfer for these shots. NTSC versions shouldn't have the excessive blur here.



And these are the wonderful widescreen shots that Sci-Fi's money bought us. Notice how much more detail you can see, how much clearer the new widescreen telecine makes the footage look, and the new vividness of the colours.The blur you see in the first frame is not the result of a bad PAL transfer, but just regular motion blur (the difference should be noticable because of the retention of detail there). Try looking at the table, and the frilly pink things on it, since Sinclair has a bit of motion blur on him because of the shot I chose.



Now, they cannot do these proper widescreen versions of the shots that include CGI bits, so called composited shots, because the extra frame data was never created when the original CGI was done. So instead of adding extra image information, they cut off part of the frame to make it fit inside the wider frame for comped shots. And this is how they were cropped on the properly mastered DVD (this is not me cropping it).



So, with the current version, you can go from something like this:

To something like this in the same scene:


which can be jarring to me. And the only way to solve it is to redo the CGI. Also, you'll notice that the proper widescreen shots in general are a lot clearer, even if you ignore the extra parts of the frame to the sides. This is mostly because of advances in telecine technology. Expect an even more dramatic improvement if they ever do HD transfers of them, both because of the extra detail that can be picked up by HD, and because of further advancements in the telecine field (the technology of scanning in film, basically).

You can continue laughing at me now.

[Boo Gee]

I voted yes, but there would be a condition attached. First, I haven't bought the dvds yet because I'm waiting for blue ray versions which are inevitable. Since there is so much damn room on a blue ray disc, they could include both the original versions simply cleaned up and in high def, and then if they wanted, could include a version with redone cgi. The blue ray version would have to have the original versions for me to buy them, though.

[Phil Harmonic]

I could care less if it was done in HD I only care about the storyline .The effects are not important to me.

I feel what your saying guys but come on, if everyone thought this we'd all still be watching Shakeperean plays, right? What could it hurt for a blur free bab 5 with new CGI?

[Phil Harmonic]

(and Jan, its not about the effects, its about the joy of seeing it crystal clear and on HD TV).

This is my main want.

[Satai Delenn]

Originally Posted by Satai Delenn
I could care less if it was done in HD I only care about the storyline .The effects are not important to me.



I feel what your saying guys but come on, if everyone thought this we'd all still be watching Shakeperean plays, right? What could it hurt for a blur free bab 5 with new CGI?


My reasons are mainly money ones if that's anyone's business but if you'd like to send maybe 1500 bucks my way I'd be happy to vote YES.The other reason being I see nothing wrong with the CGI in the old series.If that were a thing for me I would not gotten interested in JMS's universe to begin with.I started watching because of the storyline not special effects or the CGI that's what is important to me.