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Watching Babylon 5 with L - season 4

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  • #31
    Holidays are over. When is the next viewing?
    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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    • #32
      L is sick at the moment looney we'll get to it when we can.
      "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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      • #33
        aaaaand we're back, L was over ay mine yesterday watching Dr Who and Her dark materials so i suggested i coud pop in with season 4 to hers today
        Conflict of interest
        L liked that Garibaldi got a hug, they're not very touchy feely so it's nice, less nice was the shadowy figures comments upon his disposability. She also noted we haven't seen Londo in a while (we do see him next episode though so there's that). Commented several times that zach said they worked 24/7 for 3 years and seh wondered did they never sleep. Since the setup for "voice of the resistance" she noted Mrs Tachyon from The Terry PRatchett Johnny books. When Garibaldi had to give up his gun she noted how similar to modern guns the were. Also said that Zach hadn't appeared to be that close to Garibaldi. Minimal commentery re Lise though apart from "3 times youve broken my heart"


        Rumors bargains and lies
        Much less commentary on this episode, more general discussion between us (and I took rather poorer notes) L did enjoy the humour in both the scene with Sheridan winding up the league of non aligned worlds and the conversation between Ivanova and a zathras (one of the zathri perhaps? what's the plural of zathras). ths counterpointed nicely with the darker tone set for the mission Delenn was on, negotiations with Neroon and the attempted poisoning. There were also comments on the expressions on the faces of the religious cast when Leineer was explaining how he came across the canister. finally L was wondering if neroon had betrayed Delenn after all. Oh and we did get to see both Londo "and G'kar as well" so happier L.
        "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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        • #34
          CONFLICT OF INTEREST is most interesting to me when Garibaldi doesn't answer the call. On the whole not one of my favorite episodes, but very solid

          Surprised there wasn't much commentary on RUMOURS, BARGAINS, AND LIES. Sheridan's move is so brilliant. And I just love Neroon. I wish he was in more total episodes.
          Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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          • #35
            So i'm writing this late sunday evenign when we watched the episodes on tuesday, ergo my recall is somewhat spotty. I'll do my best and L did help me out earlier
            Moments of transition
            Much amusement at bester interactions with Zach. I always enjoyed the humor that both JMS and Walter put in to the character, it makes his unspeakably evil acts all the more contrasted. Bester is, amazingly the "B" arc, perhaps this episode is a double A side? Poor lyta. L did note that Zach seemed very familiar with Lyta, hand on shoulder etc. She felt that neroon ws manipulated in to this by Delenn and this was clever/ L doesn't like delenn, she has expressed this sentiment a few times. She thought that bester might do things to accelerate the obtaining of Lyta's body. She also comented tht although we have seen mention of the three castes this is the first time the workers have come to the forefront. She commented extensively on the warriors being just as bad as the religious caste in terms of fanaticism just tow sides of the same coin.
            No surrender No Retreat
            I'm rather more scattered on this. L was happy to see female captains on the destroyers but also commented that in terms of sheer size and potential heavyweight punch, they appear to outclass the white stars. She also didn't initially see the white star impact the docking bay on the pollox and destroying it and seemed to recognise the actor playing the captain of the heracles and battle group commander. There were some comments about the naming of the ships in terms of greek or roman references. L also liked the londog;kar interaciton, both in g'kars quarters and later on in the bar. especially the "on a different page". I asked her if she noticed how much darker Lonod's wardrobe is now. the following is a direct quote
            Originally posted by L
            I kinda like G'kar .. which.. I think everyone knows, but if asked for a favourite character.. would be Ivanova.. G'kar as second, maybe tied with Marcus.
            . Finally when the creits came up and this is my favourite aspect of L's growing involvement with the show she said, in a quiet voice "oh, it ended". So drawn in she was sad it stopped.

            On a side note we've been watching the trailer , which are as a rule hilariously awful, especially the overblown voiceover. But therese two seemed almost relevant.
            "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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            • #36
              Originally posted by phazedout View Post
              L also liked the londo g'kar interaction, both in g'kars quarters and later on in the bar. especially the "on a different page".
              "On a different page" is one of my favorite G'Kar quotes.

              Thanks for keeping the updates coming.

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              • #37
                Exercise of Vital Powers
                L observed that Garibaldi doesn't trust sheridan, this being made fairly obvious during the voiceover. myself (and Jan can perhaps confirm) that the "i can't belive i'm back on mars" might be a reference to the schazanegger movei total recall. L also pointed out that Wade tells him to put the blindfold on right away then gives him a 5 mintues speech exaplining it, all of which Garibaldi hasn't put the blindfold on. L thought hte room he was in looked like a hotel room wiht the stuff on the sideboard and also was amused by the touch touch touch touch touch thing with Garibli, a personal obersation, a rare touch of humour in this very dark eipsodes. L thought the room he was in was very tiny then he's in the huge room with the telepath.

                In between epipsodes i was asked in several ways why garibaldi was doing this. L speculated various reasons and she wasn't sure, seemed to think this behavior was out of character. Rather than mantain my usual enigmatci silence I told her she'd get an explanation, it might not be one she liked but she would get one.
                The Face of the Enemy
                L said she hoped Edgers was shipping up actual oranges from earth and not the concentrate as the taste is totally different. She also said she hated the back stabbing and behind the scenes stuff, the manipulaiton and machivelian evil. My "moment of the episode" was a little "oh" of realisation when bester got in the transport tube. I love these moments of revelation. L thought bester looked a big bloated in the face. She also pointed out that now that the Psy Cops have the virus, they have the same level of control over the teeps that edgars wanted.
                "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by phazedout View Post
                  The Face of the Enemy
                  L said she hoped Edgers was shipping up actual oranges from earth and not the concentrate as the taste is totally different. She also said she hated the back stabbing and behind the scenes stuff, the manipulaiton and machivelian evil. My "moment of the episode" was a little "oh" of realisation when bester got in the transport tube. I love these moments of revelation. L thought bester looked a big bloated in the face. She also pointed out that now that the Psy Cops have the virus, they have the same level of control over the teeps that edgars wanted.
                  I'm surprised she didn't mention Sheridan being taken down "like a lion by a pack of hyenas."

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                  • #39
                    It is soooo fantastic when it gets to the level of involvement that the viewer can't believe the episode is over. I am about to start a re-watch with a first time viewer and I can't wait until we get the episode where he wants to watch the next episode immediately. It is also great when they start to have realizations like Psi Corps now has control over something they can use to control their own ranks. And also the insights into the exposition are great, ie the size of the rooms and so on. I am so glad L finally got the answer to the Garbaldi question. Can't wait to hear what she thinks of the next one. LOL
                    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                    • #40
                      Intersections in real time
                      I pointed out to L as Jan has explained numerous times on the ook of faces that had they gptten dfnite confirmation for season 5 earlier, then season 4 would have ended here. I've been looking forwarf to this episode and it didn't disappoint. When the interrogator entered hte room L pointed out that he [sheridan] didn't seem to be awake yet. She also said he looked around 65-70 years old. She's been watching the marvel tv shows on netflix and said "He could have fought like murdoch, throwing something at the guards". Sunsequently when there's a brigth white ligth shining in sheridans face, she said the light alone seems like torture. There were comment on the precision of the layout of the items on the desk. Note I did warn that there were scenes of torture in tonights episode but I don't think I quite grasped the visceral horror she felt watching this. She sid "torture i don't mind but this this is just swful She later complained the pisode was boring. Was very critical of the ppoisin viewpoint saying that it'll kill you an dyou cannot innure youself to it, we had some disucssion and I argued about LD 50 and my example of spciy food, i can eat stuff that would have her vomiting on the floor with everyh evidence of pleasure. She called the epsiode boring but I wonder was she expressing her dislike of it and disocmforture at the fomr of turte, psyhcological rather than physical. Sheridan never said it was lunchtime, he just said it was lunch time somewhere.She comapred it to 1084Shr pointed oit several times the ocntrast int eh interrogator face one side looked wrinkled and the other smooth, she used the words "the shaodweed side" She refences Janus the god of gateways and doorsI'm not sure if that's a conscious refernce to the shadows themsleves or jsut a coinidence. After they collapse the gurney they brought sheridn in on in to a tale she said "that looks weird".
                      Between the darkness and the light
                      Fewer notes on this one also apologies for typoes it's 3 am for me and I fly somewhere in about 4 hours. She liked how garibaldi fell inconcious once he's hit. Tehre was a comment and a note about lyta's eyes, going all black a aside thing that when she saw it the first time as a kid it really freaked her out, but now she thinks it's cool She then noticed "oh she got ehr human eyes back". There was much amusement on the speeches given but felt it was very approporiatte with each playing to their srengths, londo of politics and gkar of morality. When ivanova went to rest she was wondering if they put huan beds in the way she liked them, ironic considering what happened laterOn the codes and lyta pciking it rom the guard's mind, it's like asking somebody not to think of pink elephants. spe, sarcasm when susan sees the pice of debris flying towards her and covers her head. There was a criticism of the white star, how it'd fall aprt all over the inside but they'd still have air to breathe. Also when we cut back to the minbari cruiser "that looks weir, i mean it's alien so it's supposed to be but it's still weird. Also, earlier when John shot the guard repatedly, "just had to shoot him a few more times. She said a friend of ours spoiled her by mentioning offhand that marcus dies. I of cours,e as usual said nothing.She did cmment when John said "Oh no i'm fine" after being drugged and toruted fo ra week "stupid mahco culture".
                      I know it's been a while and I'm away for 11 days form this morning so it'll be a least two weeks before i post again.
                      "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        If L thought INTERSECTIONS IN REAL TIME was boring you should have said that JMS was trying to deliver the torture to the audience.

                        But in all seriousness if you can place it into the context of its time it is brilliant. I love it. I remember the first time I saw it thinking, "What the hell just happened?!" because it was so unexpected that there would be an entire episode that focused on just that in the midst of what was happening in the series. Of course it was brilliant and is now a staple of what MANY shows do to build dramatic tension. I mean honestly I wonder if any show in history had ever done that in the right when they were building to a dramatic season ending. The audience knows there is this dramatic action packed ending coming and then there is a pause to focus on one bottle episode. Just brilliant. I can't even imagine how upset I would have been if I'd had to wait an entire year to see what happened after that episode.

                        BETWEEN THE DARKNESS AND THE LIGHT

                        Answer to how they were able to breathe is that they were very lucky the damage just happened to not penetrate to hull of the ship on the bridge. I just started watching with a newbie and I am soooooo worried he is going to hear spoilers like Marcus dies. (Speaking of which, I just got an email from Jason Carter yesterday updating his known convention schedule for 2020. I'm pretty sure it has been at least two years since I've heard anything from his site.)
                        Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                        • #42
                          small teaser -we're back. L is on her way over to watcvh two, or, given there's only 3 left, the rest of season 4.
                          "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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                          • #43
                            Now we should get some interesting reactions. Of course, it has been so long I think you have to start over with Season One..... 🤣
                            Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                            • #44
                              Endgame
                              very little commentary form L she did predict markus would return to B5 and also commented tht it seemed a rahter vague militry strategy that they would say give us about two hours and then go/She asked what clark's note said and pointed out the fact that with the defense grid destroyed earth was no vulbrable to invasion. I remmeberd some more. she said sheridan when he appeared on the agamenon initially was rather rugged. There was also some commentery on leftcourt's xo accent was wondering where he's from. I don't recall if this was in this episode or in rising star, but she said sheridn had a bad cut on his forehead and when he appeared later, all evidence of it was erased
                              rising star
                              lots of commentary from L in this but i didn't take notes so i'm guessing a fair bit. She was amused by the sexual commentary and banter between Londo and G'kar. She clearly saw the telegraphed president John Sheridan. Something she commented on repetedly was the similarity between the name of the new earth President Susanna Luchenko abd bealrus president lukashenko. I ponted out that the show was written more than 25 years ago but she said he'd been ruling at least that long. She also said that two of the couples ended up in bed toegher and asked, if garibaldi and lise were having sex, why they would do it under the covers. She also said even londo and g'jar who weren't having the sex, were talking about it, what wiht g'kars eye observing.

                              I've missed a fair bit but am hoping to re-instigate this on a regular basis now.
                              Last edited by phazedout; Today, 08:51 PM.
                              "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Oh wow so you did just hold to the two episodes. Dang I assumed once you went that far you would just go ahead and watch DECONSTRUCTION OF FALLING STARS.

                                Did L miss me? 😁😝😜😝😜😆🤣

                                Maybe you should start recording her comments. I mean just two of the top 10 Babylon 5 episodes and you missed a "fair bit"!!!!!! .....😝
                                Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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