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JMS cleans someone's clock! (March 16)

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  • bakana
    replied
    One more little bit on the Awards thing:

    # I was at the Emmys tonight for the presentation of the B5 Emmy, and in the visual efx area, more than one shoe can get an Emmy.
    So we got one, DS9's pilot got one, and Lucas' Young Indy show got one. (We sat at the next table to Lucas and his bunch, in fact, and noted that he watched the B5 footage with considerable interest.)
    So when you come right down to it, here we were, our first shot out of the box, and we ended up on the same level of appreciation as Trek and Lucas. Not too dusty....

    # And y'know...it's absolutely in keeping with the Straczynski luck, and the history of this show, that the year B5 wins an Emmy is the first year that they DON'T do the recap of last night's technical awards. Ah, well....

    # I was asked to keep quiet about this until April 23rd, which is when the announcement is to be made at the Nebulas, but now that it's indeed the 23rd, and that announcement either has been made or is being made now, I'm pleased to report that the Babylon 5 pilot movie, "The Gathering," has been nominated for a Hugo.

    Since we're up against Jurassic Park, I think I pretty much know where THAT award is going...but it is a tremendous honor and everyone involved with the show is very pleased by it.

    # Thanks. As it turns out -- I today saw the list of nominees -- B5 is the ONLY TV-SF nominated for the Hugo.
    The rest are all feature films (JP, Addams Family, Nightmare Before Christmas, Groundhog Day).

    # Eric...nothing would gladden my heart more than if the B5 pilot won a Hugo (except the series winning a Hugo, which I think is a bit likelier, maybe).
    It is the highest compliment that can be paid by the SF community of readers and viewers. But one must be realistic, and I just don't see it outpulling Jurassic Park in the ballotting. JP is the proverbial 500 pound gorilla. Or the 50,000 pound T-Rex.

    While we are only small mammals....granted we're mammals with guns and an attitude, of course....

    # JP won the Hugo
    Yep, that's pretty much what I said would happen. And in my view, JP probably deserves the Hugo more than "The Gathering."
    Next year, now, THAT is an open question ....

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired>>

    IT WAS??!!

    I did not know that. Ed, did you know that?

    I just remember reading about the show in a magazine months before the debut and then watching it from work and then it disappearing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    The rest of the story...

    Originally posted by grumbler
    I agree with a lot of your post, but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired, and so the claim that it "didn't get the ratings and that is why TNT cancelled" doesn't hold water. It didn't get good ratings in part BECAUSE it had already been cancelled. Whether it would have gotten good ratings if it hadn't been cancelled is one of those mysteries of life that we will never get an answer for. Certainly B5 S5 had the ratings, and it was from the same people on the same network.
    Very true, Grumbler. And there's more to it, too. JMS told some of this in the Moderated Newsgroup and it'll be on the Crusade DVDs too. What JMS told us at the Hawthorne con was:

    Oh! Yes, DVDs. Well, weÆve finished up the commentaries for the set of movies that are coming out. And weÆre working currently on the Crusade DVDs. The hiccup we have hit on the Crusade DVDsàAnd by the way, theyÆre selling great. IÆve heard that theyÆve netted û netted, mind you, over 70 million dollars just from the first three and a half seasons. (applause) When they said, do you want to do the Crusade commentaries, assuming of course that we get the rest of them (something), I said ôAbsolutely.ö (they said) What do you want to talk about?ö JMS: ôI want to say what happened.ö (they stutter) ôWhat do you mean?ö JMS: ôThe TRUTH!ö I want to put the truth out there. We are now on our fourth (something) of Legal Affairs. ôHe wants to do what??ö ôThe TRUTH!ö I have another conference call scheduled on Thursday with Legal Affairs. WeÆre running out of time for the DVDs. I said, ôLook if I canÆt get the truth out, then I donÆt want to support the DVDs.ö

    Audience: I can see some big-ass disclaimers over that one.

    JMS: I want the real truth to come out. Including the factàI ran into some guys who worked for TNT about two years after Crusade went down. And they said, ôDid you ever hear the rest of the story?ö JMS: ôWhat rest of the story?ö TNT guys: ôWe found out, we did a research survey, a five year long study of our ratings. This was just after Crusade got going. And, we found out that the audience for B5 came for B5, then left afterward. And the TNT regular viewers didnÆt stick around for B5 and went away and came back. B5 wasnÆt adding to our viewer base.ö Soàthey decided to pull the plug on Crusade for that reason and use the money to buy another show. But they couldnÆt say that because theyÆd be in breach of contract with Warner Bros. So their job was to make it impossible for us so they could then say, ôWe arenÆt getting the show we want, our notes arenÆt being dealt with, therefore we arenÆt responsible, weÆre canceling the show, this is your nut Warner Bros., you take care of it.ö That is why all the notes became so egregious. If I had given them everything they wanted, they still would have pulled the plug. They just wanted out. Yeah, I want that information out there. (Audience: WeÆll take care of that) On the DVDs. You all heard the tenor of the notes? (agreement, requests for JMS to tell some anyway) ThatÆs all right. Other questionsà Yes, sir.
    I liked Crusade. Love the characters and wanted to see more of them. Even so, even before I had the scripts, I knew that the first episodes shown seemed 'watered down' somehow and the last shown were stronger. When I got the scripts I saw that there were a *lot* more revised pages than is usual for a JMS script. He tried to work with them to the limits of the integrity of the script and characters but it was doomed from the start apparently.

    Oh, and the latest word is that they did let JMS talk about what he wanted to.

    Jan

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    Yeah, TNT jumped the gun and messed with his concepts, and yes, I loved Crusade, but looking at it from a network exec's POV, I go "Hey, the ratings ain't what we thought they'd be! Get more sex and blood!" They were trying to go for the lowest common denominator.
    I agree with a lot of your post, but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired, and so the claim that it "didn't get the ratings and that is why TNT cancelled" doesn't hold water. It didn't get good ratings in part BECAUSE it had already been cancelled. Whether it would have gotten good ratings if it hadn't been cancelled is one of those mysteries of life that we will never get an answer for. Certainly B5 S5 had the ratings, and it was from the same people on the same network.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by bakana
    The Bradbury, the other award mentioned, is awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. A group no one ever accused of being "a bunch of Intellectuals". <G>
    That's kind of funny. As G'Kar said: "look at the [record], I think you will be amused" because JMS himself, in fact, accused them of pretty much exactly this: allowing scriptwriters to join their organization and pay dues, while simultaneously insisting that no script was worthy of one of their awards.

    When he got the Bradbury Award, he insisted, as I recall, that they deliver it to him outside the SFWA premises because he refused to enter them.

    I agree that the awards that B5 won were pretty impressive, considering the competition, and that JMS is rightfully proud of them. In fact, from the first season, 8 episodes made the Hugo nominations list (far more than from any other show)! If JMS had acted in time to decline nominations, I think And the Sky Full of Stars may well have had a real shot at the title. In 1997, every episode of season 4 was nominated.

    However, if you look at the votes received totals, you will see that in fact the Hugo is voted on by fewer people than the Nebula. Kinda weird, but as Londo would say, "there you are."

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan
    Nicely done. I've just discovered a feature here I've never explored. You can click on the 'Members' button at the top of the screen, find the profile of a person who's no longer worth your time to read and click on a link to add them to your 'ignore' list. I've read that it's a truism in psychology that when one is totally and completely ignored, that person tends to go away.

    Shall we test it?

    Jan
    An excellent idea, and done. I would ask that no one quote the narc, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • bakana
    replied
    as the awards are given out by intellectuals who no doubt see things differently than the average Joe.
    Not in the case of the awards being discussed: The Hugo (Babylon 5 won Two) is voted on by FANS. It is awarded each year at the World Science Fiction Convention. A 100% Fan Run convention. US Worldcons are 100% Non Profit. (I've worked on one or two.)
    Most of the people who work on a Worldcon actually Pay to be there. As in pay all their own expenses, hotel, transportation, meals, etc.
    In return, they get to Purchase "Limited Edition" T-Shirts and such like things that are only available to people who actually Work a minumum of 20 hours during the convention.

    It's not like a Vulcon or Creation Con where the organizers are making a Living milking the fans wallets for cash.

    Back to the Hugo: Fans vote for it. How many recognizable "Intellectuals" have YOU seen wandering the halls of a Convention lately?

    The Bradbury, the other award mentioned, is awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. A group no one ever accused of being "a bunch of Intellectuals". <G>

    It's a Peer award. Writers saying that they think some Writer other than themselves has done a better job than any other Writer that year.

    Considering the quality of Ego involved, it's not a bad award to get.

    Leave a comment:


  • AaronB
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan
    Doug doesn't moderate every thread, never has since the message boards began last year. Which is why I suggested using the 'Ignore' feature.

    Jan
    Thanks for the tip Jan!

    Aaron

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<At a time when he was so busy he was only getting about 3 hours sleep a night.>>

    I rarely get more than five. I just feel so excited about life. I feel like sleep is a waste of time. I lay in bed some nights until 4:00AM, thinking of this and that. Not worrying...just thinking. It must be some kind of natural adrenaline, as I just don't feel tired. Sometimes I will get about ten straight hours on a weekend. But right now, I am working 6-7 days a week and then they asked me to work a few hours over into third shift because my third shift peer has been out for three weeks now (read: FMLA, another beaut signed by Clinton and abused by millions). But...I don't feel tired. Right now, I am ready to go home, shower up and watch some B5! I think I will head for home right now!

    Leave a comment:


  • bakana
    replied
    I am sure he loves the B5 fans, as well. They were his bread and butter.
    Take a look in the Lurker's Guide and try reading some of the hundreds of posts JMS made while Conversing with Fans on a Daily Basis starting in November 1991. Daily. At a time when he was so busy he was only getting about 3 hours sleep a night.

    Yeah, I'd say he considered the Fans.

    Just a Few Things:

    Quantium 40, the "element" needed to make Jump Gates work was named by a Fan on Genie. Dave still has the T-Shirt JMS sent him for winning the "Name That Element" Contest (Yeah, I know the guy who came up with it.)


    And today I have amended the B5 bible to include the following notation:
    "The Babylon 5 station is located in neutral territory, in grid epsilon, at coordinates 470/22/18."

    Onward!

    jms
    Grid Epsilon (and those Coordinates) was the Science Fiction Roundtable - Babylon 5 - Topic on GEnie (Grid Epsilon) where JMS was Posting all those messages.

    Oh, and of course, the most obvious reference to Fans On Babylon 5: The Lurkers in Downbelow...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<As others pointed out, he was merely listing awards the show had won, that were of value, unlike the many other silly awards that are given out.>>

    Hey, yay for the awards. You got'em, flaunt'em.

    Babylon 5 is my favorite TV show of all time now that I have seen it all the way through. But I don't think the awards should be a gauge of a track record, as the awards are given out by intellectuals who no doubt see things differently than the average Joe. We are all pretty cultured people on this board. Now from where I sit at this moment, I can look down to the production floor and see people who barely know how to read. I am in the middle. I am a smart guy, but I am not into the whole intellectual thing. So JMS probably won over the intellectual crowd for sure, probably most people like me who are INTO the genre and probably people from the lower levels of society who liked to see space battles and gun fights. The ratings...why do you think these imbecilec reality shows get the ratings? One, they're trendy for the common man, two, they are "chix in bikinis, man! woooo!" for the cretins. I doubt many intellectuals watch Survivor: Bottomless Pit or whatever. My point is that pure intellectuals are in the minority, and JMS accomplished a lot by catching them and normal people like me. But when you don't get the ratings, it's bye bye. Yeah, TNT jumped the gun and messed with his concepts, and yes, I loved Crusade, but looking at it from a network exec's POV, I go "Hey, the ratings ain't what we thought they'd be! Get more sex and blood!" They were trying to go for the lowest common denominator.

    So the awards aren't the true accomplishment here...the crowd that B5 garnered and maintained is...and the diversity of that crowd. I just felt like JMS was shortchaning us when he bragged about the awards. I am sure he loves the B5 fans, as well. They were his bread and butter.

    So, I guess I was just bitter about that. Apologies for any confusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    Jeez, JMS is not a very humble guy. I dislike people who brag. This one guy I know used to call and e-mail every time he bought something. "I got a NEW laptop!" Awards mean pretty much nothing, unless they are chosen by fans. I don't know if Hugos and SFWA's are, but who cares? I would have just laughed off the ignoramus. My mom used to have a saying..."Laugh your way to the bank."

    And even though Voyager buggered up the episode with The Rock, I think they could have worked a wrestler into an episode in a really creative way. The rest of the ideas from TNT were erroneous, though.
    JMS is actually pretty humble, honest and straightforward.

    It is amazing though, that you can deduce his character from reading his response there. That is quite an ability.

    As others pointed out, he was merely listing awards the show had won, that were of value, unlike the many other silly awards that are given out.

    What you have to understand is the 10+ year battle JMS has had to wage on the internet against critics, slanderers, and general morons from the time B5 was greenlighted until the present. Nincompoops with no facts, knowledge or anything else would frequently appear and spout off on the net. You can either let things continue, and they spread, or you can stamp them out immediately.

    When you are faced with outright lies and distortions of fact, and your own decisions, motives and actions degraded, then you can either laugh off the ignoramus or respond. JMS chose to respond. There is a time to turn the other cheek, and there is a time to kick someone in the nuts. As a man of character once said, "You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word alone".

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    I think we need to have some threads locked out once we determine their redundancy, etc. Like the subject of the "Nightwatch lives" thread was moved to the OTD board.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by circularREASON
    IS THIS THREAD BEING MODERATED?
    Doug doesn't moderate every thread, never has since the message boards began last year. Which is why I suggested using the 'Ignore' feature.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • circularREASON
    replied
    IS THIS THREAD BEING MODERATED?

    Leave a comment:

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