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JMS cleans someone's clock! (March 16)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by bakana
    The Bradbury, the other award mentioned, is awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. A group no one ever accused of being "a bunch of Intellectuals". <G>
    That's kind of funny. As G'Kar said: "look at the [record], I think you will be amused" because JMS himself, in fact, accused them of pretty much exactly this: allowing scriptwriters to join their organization and pay dues, while simultaneously insisting that no script was worthy of one of their awards.

    When he got the Bradbury Award, he insisted, as I recall, that they deliver it to him outside the SFWA premises because he refused to enter them.

    I agree that the awards that B5 won were pretty impressive, considering the competition, and that JMS is rightfully proud of them. In fact, from the first season, 8 episodes made the Hugo nominations list (far more than from any other show)! If JMS had acted in time to decline nominations, I think And the Sky Full of Stars may well have had a real shot at the title. In 1997, every episode of season 4 was nominated.

    However, if you look at the votes received totals, you will see that in fact the Hugo is voted on by fewer people than the Nebula. Kinda weird, but as Londo would say, "there you are."
    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
      Yeah, TNT jumped the gun and messed with his concepts, and yes, I loved Crusade, but looking at it from a network exec's POV, I go "Hey, the ratings ain't what we thought they'd be! Get more sex and blood!" They were trying to go for the lowest common denominator.
      I agree with a lot of your post, but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired, and so the claim that it "didn't get the ratings and that is why TNT cancelled" doesn't hold water. It didn't get good ratings in part BECAUSE it had already been cancelled. Whether it would have gotten good ratings if it hadn't been cancelled is one of those mysteries of life that we will never get an answer for. Certainly B5 S5 had the ratings, and it was from the same people on the same network.
      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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      • #48
        The rest of the story...

        Originally posted by grumbler
        I agree with a lot of your post, but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired, and so the claim that it "didn't get the ratings and that is why TNT cancelled" doesn't hold water. It didn't get good ratings in part BECAUSE it had already been cancelled. Whether it would have gotten good ratings if it hadn't been cancelled is one of those mysteries of life that we will never get an answer for. Certainly B5 S5 had the ratings, and it was from the same people on the same network.
        Very true, Grumbler. And there's more to it, too. JMS told some of this in the Moderated Newsgroup and it'll be on the Crusade DVDs too. What JMS told us at the Hawthorne con was:

        Oh! Yes, DVDs. Well, weÆve finished up the commentaries for the set of movies that are coming out. And weÆre working currently on the Crusade DVDs. The hiccup we have hit on the Crusade DVDsàAnd by the way, theyÆre selling great. IÆve heard that theyÆve netted û netted, mind you, over 70 million dollars just from the first three and a half seasons. (applause) When they said, do you want to do the Crusade commentaries, assuming of course that we get the rest of them (something), I said ôAbsolutely.ö (they said) What do you want to talk about?ö JMS: ôI want to say what happened.ö (they stutter) ôWhat do you mean?ö JMS: ôThe TRUTH!ö I want to put the truth out there. We are now on our fourth (something) of Legal Affairs. ôHe wants to do what??ö ôThe TRUTH!ö I have another conference call scheduled on Thursday with Legal Affairs. WeÆre running out of time for the DVDs. I said, ôLook if I canÆt get the truth out, then I donÆt want to support the DVDs.ö

        Audience: I can see some big-ass disclaimers over that one.

        JMS: I want the real truth to come out. Including the factàI ran into some guys who worked for TNT about two years after Crusade went down. And they said, ôDid you ever hear the rest of the story?ö JMS: ôWhat rest of the story?ö TNT guys: ôWe found out, we did a research survey, a five year long study of our ratings. This was just after Crusade got going. And, we found out that the audience for B5 came for B5, then left afterward. And the TNT regular viewers didnÆt stick around for B5 and went away and came back. B5 wasnÆt adding to our viewer base.ö Soàthey decided to pull the plug on Crusade for that reason and use the money to buy another show. But they couldnÆt say that because theyÆd be in breach of contract with Warner Bros. So their job was to make it impossible for us so they could then say, ôWe arenÆt getting the show we want, our notes arenÆt being dealt with, therefore we arenÆt responsible, weÆre canceling the show, this is your nut Warner Bros., you take care of it.ö That is why all the notes became so egregious. If I had given them everything they wanted, they still would have pulled the plug. They just wanted out. Yeah, I want that information out there. (Audience: WeÆll take care of that) On the DVDs. You all heard the tenor of the notes? (agreement, requests for JMS to tell some anyway) ThatÆs all right. Other questionsà Yes, sir.
        I liked Crusade. Love the characters and wanted to see more of them. Even so, even before I had the scripts, I knew that the first episodes shown seemed 'watered down' somehow and the last shown were stronger. When I got the scripts I saw that there were a *lot* more revised pages than is usual for a JMS script. He tried to work with them to the limits of the integrity of the script and characters but it was doomed from the start apparently.

        Oh, and the latest word is that they did let JMS talk about what he wanted to.

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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        • #49
          <<but I think it worth noting once again that Crusade was cancelled before the first ep aired>>

          IT WAS??!!

          I did not know that. Ed, did you know that?

          I just remember reading about the show in a magazine months before the debut and then watching it from work and then it disappearing.
          Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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          • #50
            One more little bit on the Awards thing:

            # I was at the Emmys tonight for the presentation of the B5 Emmy, and in the visual efx area, more than one shoe can get an Emmy.
            So we got one, DS9's pilot got one, and Lucas' Young Indy show got one. (We sat at the next table to Lucas and his bunch, in fact, and noted that he watched the B5 footage with considerable interest.)
            So when you come right down to it, here we were, our first shot out of the box, and we ended up on the same level of appreciation as Trek and Lucas. Not too dusty....

            # And y'know...it's absolutely in keeping with the Straczynski luck, and the history of this show, that the year B5 wins an Emmy is the first year that they DON'T do the recap of last night's technical awards. Ah, well....

            # I was asked to keep quiet about this until April 23rd, which is when the announcement is to be made at the Nebulas, but now that it's indeed the 23rd, and that announcement either has been made or is being made now, I'm pleased to report that the Babylon 5 pilot movie, "The Gathering," has been nominated for a Hugo.

            Since we're up against Jurassic Park, I think I pretty much know where THAT award is going...but it is a tremendous honor and everyone involved with the show is very pleased by it.

            # Thanks. As it turns out -- I today saw the list of nominees -- B5 is the ONLY TV-SF nominated for the Hugo.
            The rest are all feature films (JP, Addams Family, Nightmare Before Christmas, Groundhog Day).

            # Eric...nothing would gladden my heart more than if the B5 pilot won a Hugo (except the series winning a Hugo, which I think is a bit likelier, maybe).
            It is the highest compliment that can be paid by the SF community of readers and viewers. But one must be realistic, and I just don't see it outpulling Jurassic Park in the ballotting. JP is the proverbial 500 pound gorilla. Or the 50,000 pound T-Rex.

            While we are only small mammals....granted we're mammals with guns and an attitude, of course....

            # JP won the Hugo
            Yep, that's pretty much what I said would happen. And in my view, JP probably deserves the Hugo more than "The Gathering."
            Next year, now, THAT is an open question ....

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