Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

B5 and HD-DVD or Blue Ray

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by NotSoWize
    Also, Garibaldi runs through an alien (I cannot remember which race) city at least a couple of times during season five when he is nearly assassinated while drunk.
    That was the Drazi homeworld, for those that care.

    I also remember some outdoor(-ish) scenes on Minbar, such as the beginning of War Without End when Sinclair talks with Rathenn.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by NotSoWize
      Funny, I never really thought about how rare it was for anyone to be "outdoors" on B5 until now.
      Watch an episode of Startrek TNG where they visit a planet and I think it becomes clear why they avoided it. Either you end up with a "pop on the bus to the nearest desert/field" look or the same plastic rocks we saw last week rearranged.

      I'd say most of the CGI did a good job of hiding its limatations aswell, ships with limated animation and lazers/explosions must me alot easier to produce than CG characters for example.
      Who are you?
      What do you want?
      What is the average inflight speed of an unladened swallow?

      Comment


      • #18
        Up-scaling B5 to HD wont get rid of its dirt, thats another process which is very costly.

        Since i dont have a real HD TV im not in a hurry to get either BR or HD-DVD, if ill get one of 'em it would be for backup'ing purposes on my puter.
        Sleeping in Light-----Darnit! Shut the Window.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ranger1
          Up-scaling B5 to HD wont get rid of its dirt, thats another process which is very costly.

          Since i dont have a real HD TV im not in a hurry to get either BR or HD-DVD, if ill get one of 'em it would be for backup'ing purposes on my puter.
          Doing a new telecine can still dramatically improve the look of something. Technology in that department has continued to improve in a pretty significant fashion over the last couple of years, from what I understand. Although some of B5, especially season 1, looks indeed very grainy and dirty in places, and the colour timing also feels a bit off in places. The people who do the Doctor Who DVDs have been working magic in cleaning up rather bad prints with a fairly limited budget though, but that's probably in part because most of those working on it are fans and it is a labour of love for them.

          As for why I would like to see the CGI redone; to me it is not even so much that it looks outdated, as that the version of B5 we have on DVD now is widescreen, and the CGI and comped shots are 4:3 frames cropped to look widescreen. This looks out of place to me, in a sense already "messed" with the series, and making a version that does not require those shots to be done by cropping 4:3 frames would be undoing a problem, more than anything else, to me. And the only way you can redo those shots, after the original computer files were lost, is to redo the CGI and comped shots again by hand.

          I typed several longer replies over at a B5TV website discussion. I'll just quote part of a post by me there to explain my thoughts on this, since I'm lazy.
          Would I like to see B5 in HD? Yeah, sure. It was shot on 35mm film, so when they shot the show, they did shoot all this extra detail. And I would love to see it. I like how the show looks, and to see it in a sharper way would make me happy. Also, an HD version could give the show new appeal to both networks and HD-DVD/Blu-ray consumers, and the more done to keep the format in which the story is told relevant, to give it a longer shelf life, to keep its appeal to those who would've written it of because of age or low budget looks otherwise, the better. To quote JMS, talking about the new Widescreen versions that got made a few years ago:
          Because of the trend to HD, the widescreen versions, even with these small glitches, will still have a longer shelf life than if we put them out in regular aspect ratio. And that is the purpose of the story, to keep it around.
          Would I like to see to see the CGI redone? Oh yeah. If only because that was always the original intention when going to a widescreen version, and we only were denied that because WB lost the original computer files. And redoing it by hand then was going to be too expensive for the widescreen versions. And the CGI shots that are 4:3 frames cropped to look like widescreen are less than ideal. It's not even that bad for the space CGI shots, which look a bit blurry and aliased, but the framing looks sort of ok (to me), but with the CGI/live action composited shots, it just looks off. Because very often, you go from this nice full widescreen frame, to this 4:3 cropped frame to look widescreen, and it just looks jarring.

          And those would probably stand out even more in a high resolution HD version, which was sort of my idea behind asking if such a hypothetical version could move whoever was funding to redo the CGI and composited shots, in a similar way to the Trek stuff.

          In fact, small confession here, but I personally would actual care more about the CGI and comped shots being redone properly than HD. But I know that it is really unlikely that someone is going to come along and finance the CGI widescreen reworkings that were originally planned, but not done because of missing computer files. However, an HD version seems not totally unlikely to happen, and if that could prompt someone to redo the CGI and comped shots, it would make me happier for that than for the HD.

          As for it being like a painting that shouldn't be messed with; they already sort of did. With the widescreen version. Which worked out really well for all the live action bits, and a bit less so for the comped and CGI shots.
          Last edited by Shabaz; 09-07-2006, 06:29 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            If you want to see it happen then I'd guess you've two main hopes...

            1.The cost of CGI is generally decreasing so what was prohibivitively expensive prohibitively even 4-5 years ago may well be alot cheaper now.

            2.If WB wanted to re release the series on HD DVD/BR then redone CGI would be a good way to get people who've already purchased it once on DVD to buy it again.
            Who are you?
            What do you want?
            What is the average inflight speed of an unladened swallow?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by moreorless
              If you want to see it happen then I'd guess you've two main hopes...

              1.The cost of CGI is generally decreasing so what was prohibivitively expensive prohibitively even 4-5 years ago may well be alot cheaper now.

              2.If WB wanted to re release the series on HD DVD/BR then redone CGI would be a good way to get people who've already purchased it once on DVD to buy it again.
              That was my thinking also. And that the CGI assets created for TLT might further make it easier to redo CGI.

              How do you guys feel about TLT being HD or not? I asked JMS, but he ignored the question, probably he can't, or doesn't want to talk about such details at the moment. I think it's likely he would at least try to look into it, since we're very much at the brink of the new disc formats, and more tv channels are going HD also. But it does add cost to the shooting, and to the CGI requirements.

              Comment


              • #22
                Redoing the CGI would be great. There are alot of places I KNOW JMS would have wanted to look different but he was limited at the time.

                Take for instance the palace on Centauri, I always though the the main Palace for such an old and warlike race looking rather ..... small and plain. Like a state capitol, not the SEAT of the LEADER of the Centauri.

                All of the indoor B5 shoots could stand being redone.

                I thought Mars was actually not too bad.

                The raider ships please.

                I REALLY like the Jump Points in the Rangers movie as well as hyperspace. Two small thing but they made me smile looking at them.

                Also Minbar looked GREAT, like a full city.

                Shoot we should get an online poll going, see how many signatures we could get stating if the re-released all the seasons in HD with redone CGI we would buy them a second time.
                My Blog and more - Click here

                Comment


                • #23
                  What, like an online petition? Those things are mostly useless IMO, to be honest. I think even a moderately sized writing campaign is usually more effective than one of those petitions, when trying to get your voice heard.

                  However, I see two problems with starting such a fan campaign. One: B5 fans hardly agree among themselves whether something like this would be a good idea or not, as evidenced by this thread and the one I linked over at B5TV. Making them speak with one voice would be rather hard, I think. Some feel it would be messing with something that should not be messed with. And those that would like an HD version do not necessarily agree on how it should be done. Some might like an HD transfer, but are really weary of redoing the CGI. Some would like the CGI redone, but mostly because the framing looks off and it is otherwise too low res for HD, and not necessarily because it looks outdated and a more modern aesthetic would be preferred, like me. And some feel that redoing the CGI to look as good as it can be with modern tools can only be a good thing, like you seem to feel Phil. And I have a feeling that a lot of those that wouldn't mind an HD version do not feel particularly strong about it.

                  Second, I think the studio mostly responds to money, and they would only consider it if their own numbercrunchers come to the conclusion that it would be profitable. Maybe if the Lost Tales DVDs are a runaway success they would further look into it, since that would equal money coming in, something that would get their attention. But I'm not sure how much influence some fans could have on something like this.

                  Still, it can never hurt to ask by sending a letter. I'm almost tempted to do so myself to satisfy my curiosity, although I'm sure the chance of actually getting a reply is rather small.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Shabaz
                    What, like an online petition? Those things are mostly useless IMO, to be honest. I think even a moderately sized writing campaign is usually more effective than one of those petitions, when trying to get your voice heard.

                    However, I see two problems with starting such a fan campaign. One: B5 fans hardly agree among themselves whether something like this would be a good idea or not, as evidenced by this thread and the one I linked over at B5TV. Making them speak with one voice would be rather hard, I think. Some feel it would be messing with something that should not be messed with. And those that would like an HD version do not necessarily agree on how it should be done. Some might like an HD transfer, but are really weary of redoing the CGI. Some would like the CGI redone, but mostly because the framing looks off and it is otherwise too low res for HD, and not necessarily because it looks outdated and a more modern aesthetic would be preferred, like me. And some feel that redoing the CGI to look as good as it can be with modern tools can only be a good thing, like you seem to feel Phil. And I have a feeling that a lot of those that wouldn't mind an HD version do not feel particularly strong about it.

                    Second, I think the studio mostly responds to money, and they would only consider it if their own numbercrunchers come to the conclusion that it would be profitable. Maybe if the Lost Tales DVDs are a runaway success they would further look into it, since that would equal money coming in, something that would get their attention. But I'm not sure how much influence some fans could have on something like this.

                    Still, it can never hurt to ask by sending a letter. I'm almost tempted to do so myself to satisfy my curiosity, although I'm sure the chance of actually getting a reply is rather small.
                    I think its also a mistake to assume that the average B5 fan is that well informed about the cropping of the CGI shots.

                    From the studio's point of view any reworking of B5 would surely either have to either convince people who didnt buy the DVD's to buy them or probabley more importantly convince people who did to buy them a second time. That to me means really state of the art CGI thats clearly better than the original which IMHO is still pretty impressive from season 2 onwards. As I said though I wouldnt totally give up hope if your looking for this to happen as with the first lot of DVD's there was really no reason to spend much on them first time round. Not only wasnt there a proven market but as with films coming out on bare bones DVD's first then SE's latter they probabley viewed the series itself as enough of a selling point(epsiecally when its going to be bought by fans who'd buy it no matter what).

                    I guess another possibility would be to re edit the series using footage cut from the original. No idea if the original footage has been kept(although the re editted pilot movie surely gives some hope) but if its a DVD only release then theres no reason each episode has to keep to 45 mins.
                    Last edited by moreorless; 09-08-2006, 07:29 AM.
                    Who are you?
                    What do you want?
                    What is the average inflight speed of an unladened swallow?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think you are right, mororless. Although I wouldn't really mind them redoing it to look more up to modern standards either, personally.

                      And yeah, from what I understand, the B5 DVDs were mostly an experiment from the side of WB. They didn't even want to pay for the widescreen transfers, which, IIRC, cost about $1500 per episode, and it required money from Sci-Fi channel for that to happen. Which does add up, but is probably insignificant to the half a billion plus that the DVDs grossed for them.

                      I think at this point, more than anything else, the success, or lack thereof, of the Lost Tales DVDs will be a determining factor in deciding if they want to re-issue original materials in this franchise.
                      Last edited by Shabaz; 09-08-2006, 07:26 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Shabaz
                        I think you are right, mororless. Although I wouldn't really mind them redoing it to look more up to modern standards either, personally.
                        If they did I'd hope they'd get back those responsible for the original work which wasnt just technically exellent for its time but perhaps more importantly brilliantly directed. The latter has IMHO really been badly missed in the last few years, you can have all the computting power you want but if theres no imagination behind it then the results are going to be lacking.

                        The regular tactic of fixing the virtual camara behind your hero's ship then having it fly though a ramdom malestrom of lasers and explosions seems to be the way it goes these days(starwars prequals for example). Compair that to something like the Narn/Shadow battle in The Long Twilight Struggle, brilliant framing and choerography thoughout that got my heart racing more than anything in Lucas's latest work.

                        And yeah, from what I understand, the B5 DVDs were mostly an experiment from the side of WB. They didn't even want to pay for the widescreen transfers, which, IIRC, cost about $1500 per episode, and it required money from Sci-Fi channel for that to happen. Which does add up, but is probably insignificant to the half a billion plus that the DVDs grossed for them.

                        I think at this point, more than anything else, the success, or lack thereof, of the Lost Tales DVDs will be a determining factor in deciding if they want to re-issue original materials in this franchise.
                        Studio's badly underestimating the appeal of cult TV DVD's hasnt exactly been uncommon in the last few years as we've seen with the likes of Futurama and Family Guy. I see DVD in general becoming the main market for cult entertainment in the coming years rather than TV or cinema.
                        Who are you?
                        What do you want?
                        What is the average inflight speed of an unladened swallow?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Shabaz
                          I think you are right, mororless. Although I wouldn't really mind them redoing it to look more up to modern standards either, personally.

                          And yeah, from what I understand, the B5 DVDs were mostly an experiment from the side of WB. They didn't even want to pay for the widescreen transfers, which, IIRC, cost about $1500 per episode, and it required money from Sci-Fi channel for that to happen. Which does add up, but is probably insignificant to the half a billion plus that the DVDs grossed for them.

                          I think at this point, more than anything else, the success, or lack thereof, of the Lost Tales DVDs will be a determining factor in deciding if they want to re-issue original materials in this franchise.
                          I will have to buy 5 copies myself and get everyone I know to do the same then.
                          My Blog and more - Click here

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by moreorless
                            Studio's badly underestimating the appeal of cult TV DVD's hasnt exactly been uncommon in the last few years as we've seen with the likes of Futurama and Family Guy. I see DVD in general becoming the main market for cult entertainment in the coming years rather than TV or cinema.
                            Wow I was going to bring up Family Guy myself, that's why it's back on the Air. DVD's.
                            My Blog and more - Click here

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Phil Harmonic
                              Suppose it would be too much to ask to redo all of the CGI, hehe.
                              Maybe they'll do it when B5 celebrates its 40th anniversary

                              I think redoing the space-cgi-scenes wouldn't be that much of a problem. I definitely would be more expensive that with TOS simply because B5 has far more such scenes, but with CGI-work getting cheaper I could see Warner doing it in a couple of years (especially since they have to remake all the models for "The Lost Tales" anyway). But with the composited shots, I see a problem. You cannot remake them from scratch, first you need the unedited and unaltered material that was shot - and I'm not sure if that's still available, or if Warner simply kept the finished episodes...
                              Last edited by cornholio1980; 09-27-2006, 03:25 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I could see Warner doing it in a couple of years (especially since they have to remake all the models for "The Lost Tales" anyway).
                                Hardly "all the models". Depending on which stories he decides to tell, they may make damned few of them. The station itself, certainly. Epsilon 3. Some of the standard transport ships. Star Furies. But if JMS does mostly station-based day-in-the life stories it could be years before there's even a reason to show an EarthForce destroyer. Cartainly I wouldn't expect to see tons of First Ones ship or alien vessels, which would be needed for the major battle scenes. The CGI elements for a lot of the composite shots were unique to those particular shots, and therefore would not be needed for TLT. (I can't see another visit by a Narkaleen Feeder, for instance. )

                                And building the models themselves is a relatively minor part of recreating the CGI. Some of the space battles hundreds of ships, explosions (taken from live-action elements like gasoline bombs), and intricate coreography. It would be a major undertaking, much more so than replacing a bunch of stock footage shots in Star Trek.

                                Regards,

                                Joe
                                Joseph DeMartino
                                Sigh Corps
                                Pat Tallman Division

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X