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  • #46
    Originally posted by AmyG
    In light of this discussion, I'm wondering if anyone knows offhand how many hours the longest Doctor Who logged as the character. Because another thing that can't be overlooked in the question of recasting - if such an egregious thing were even on the table - is the fact that Andreas and Rick played their respective characters through a pilot (well, at least Andreas did), 110 season episodes, and up to five other (non-pilot) films. That's a whole lotta hours logged as their respective characters. And peoples' memories are _long_ in matters such as these. I just want to know how apt the Doctor Who comparison is, because I'm sure I'm going to be refuting that particular argument for the next several years of new Babylon 5 material...
    Tom Baker did a 7 year stint as the doctor 1974-81 and then I think one appearance a couple of years later.

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    • #47
      I think comparisons with Doctor Who are irrelevant, tbh. I don't know at which point the whole re-generation thing was introduced, or made canon (not being alive when DW started), but certainly by the time that Jon Pertwee re-generated into Tom Baker (my first re-gen as a fan), it was not only an accepted part of the Doctor Who character, but anticipated as a TV "event", whenever it happened.

      That is light years apart from re-casting an established character who doesn't have this ability ... OTOH, maybe JMS could ret-con the whole Narn back-story to allow them to change their bodies as required.

      That would also neatly explain how Na'Toth changed between S1 and S2, and then back again before S5 too.

      ....

      OK, I'll get my coat now.

      The Optimist: The glass is half full
      The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
      The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jan
        I think it's apples and oranges anyway. I imagine that the different Doctor Who thing started as accidentally as Murphy Brown's revolving secretaries did and somebody bright managed to incorporate it into the canon. I'm glad it worked for them but the two situations are hardly comparable.
        Well, of course you're preaching to the choir, here. :-) I just want to have more information so that I can argue more thoroughly and convincingly the next time someone trots out the ol' "But Doctor Who did it!" comment with regard to this situation.

        Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair
        OTOH, maybe JMS could ret-con the whole Narn back-story to allow them to change their bodies as required.
        Gah! Please, let's not even joke about that! ;-)
        AmyG
        Goddess of Good Taste
        Last edited by AmyG; 08-08-2006, 12:02 PM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by AmyG
          Gah! Please, let's not even joke about that! ;-)
          Well...there *is* a certain script that exists where a certain Narn undergoes some massive body changes.

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ljg702
            Tom Baker did a 7 year stint as the doctor 1974-81 and then I think one appearance a couple of years later.
            on could argue that paul mcgann is the longest running doctor from the EDA novels and that the char of fitz is the longest companion, but as the arguments on DW canon are beyond endless, as to the longest companion thats an interesting thing, most of them last between 2 and 3 years, i think sarah jane smith may end up with the honour however (assuming one doesn't count the semi-sentiant TARDIS) however a doctor who disscustion should be shifted to general i think, or over on Outpost Gallifrey

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jan
              Well...there *is* a certain script that exists where a certain Narn undergoes some massive body changes.

              Jan


              I think those have it right who state that the problem is not that G'Kar might be hard to present to us properly, but that JMS writes what the charactors tell him to write, and that G'Kar's voice in his head would not say things useful for the writing process.

              As I see it, JMS's issue with writing for G'kar isn't a matter of adapting to new actor's voice, it is a matter of the voice of a charactor saying nothing but "I am dead, from now until the end of time."

              Let's give the man some room. He has lost four close friends (two of them people, two of them charactors) and he needs to figure out how to deal with that. He has a lot of exciting things on his plate, and while I will selfishly admit that it is the news of new B5-universe material that lifts my boat, I know he has some major work ahead of him in what i consider peripheral areas, and "I am gonna let [him] go and do 'em".
              I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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              • #52
                Just as JMS said, 'I can't imagine another B5 movie as long as Rick and Andreas insist on staying dead.'

                I am happy for anything that comes out of new stories in the B5 universe. Those two characters will be missed sorely, but even if someone mentions them as doing something offscreen, I will be happy.
                What's done is done, I don't want to see any other actor playing them, nor do I want to see old footage re-used like they did for the DS9 Tribble episode. (That was fun while it lasted but the script police should have stopped them)

                I'm looking forward to anything whenever it comes and however it comes. It's a big universe out there, and plenty of characters to create more than enough stories.
                "It is what I have done with where I have been that should be of interest." - Georgia O'Keefe

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by PMvanova
                  Just as JMS said, 'I can't imagine another B5 movie as long as Rick and Andreas insist on staying dead.'
                  I know you were paraphrasing, PMvanova, but just to clarify what JMS said:

                  ..., I canÆt see the structure of a B5 movie right now as long as long as Andreas and Rick insist on staying dead. As much as B5 was about the stories of Sheridan and Delenn and those guys, thereÆs the Londo and GÆKar arc that was the clothes line from which I hung all that. And without GÆKaràmaybe in a year or two I can start to see the structure of it but right now I canÆt do something big right now. IÆd love to but I canÆt.
                  So it's a matter of no movie yet, not no movie ever. I'm working on the transcript but it's slow going-sorry.

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by NotSoWize
                    I don't want to start a flame war or anything, I just have a question that I think could lead to a lively discussion (and for the record, I really, really, really, liked Andreas and Richard in these roles.)

                    But . . . I don't quite see how JMS can on the one hand propose a Star Trek: Rebooted with new actors taking on the roles of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy etc. and on the other hand be so adamantly opposed to casting new actors in the roles of G'kar and Dr. Franklin.

                    In some of his discussion of the rebooted Star Trek, JMS and co-creator Bryce Zabel state: "Will the fans of the original series (call it Star Trek: Classic) accept a new cast and series under the original Star Trek banner? The answer, we believe, is a firm and unequivocal 'yes.'" If JMS truly believed that, then why would he think that the fans of the original B5 would not accept a B5 based series with new actors in the roles of G'kar and Dr. Franklin? I mean we B5 fans can be somewhat fanatical, but certainly not more so than Trekkers!

                    Personally, I think that the difference is that JMS had a personal relationship with the original cast and he feels it would dishoner those friendships to replace them with new actors. I just wonder if he still feels the same way about the Star Trek: Rebooted as he did when he and Mr. Zabel proposed it. I also wonder how he would have responded had the project moved forward only to be strongly opposed by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy who originated the roles of Kirk and Spock.

                    Any thoughts?
                    You nailed it, he is/was too close to Richard and Andreas.

                    But not Zathras, no. Zathras can be recast 1000 times. Zathras never get any respect...
                    NotKosh
                    Confirmed User
                    Last edited by NotKosh; 09-01-2006, 12:30 PM.
                    "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                    • #55
                      But . . . I don't quite see how JMS can on the one hand propose a Star Trek: Rebooted with new actors taking on the roles of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy etc. and on the other hand be so adamantly opposed to casting new actors in the roles of G'kar and Dr. Franklin.
                      Because the two ideas are completely different, perhaps?

                      In the case of Trek he's talking about starting the series over in approximately the same time frame with James T. Kirk in his early 30s having just received command of the Enterprise. All of the characters would necessarily have to be recast.

                      In the case of B5 you're talking about on-going stories set mostly in the neary 20 year gap between "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light" in which the other surviving actors would reprise their roles.

                      The two situations are literally nothing alike and certainly don't indicate any inconsistency on JMS's part.

                      JMS has always been reluctant to recast existing characters, which is why we got Talia instead of a new actress playing Lyta and Sheridan instead of a new Sinclair.

                      OTOH if he were offered the chance to executive produce a remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still he'd pretty much have to recast, wouldn't he.

                      There is a difference between a remake and a sequel.

                      Regards,

                      Joe
                      Joseph DeMartino
                      Sigh Corps
                      Pat Tallman Division

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by prometheous
                        Mcguyver??? no thanks. Dr Who works because everybody expects the actor to change - it's part of the character. There was a massive outcry when the first doctor gave way to the second as well.
                        Agreed, no to Richard Dean Anderson, who has not shown the depth.

                        If, if if if if, I had to pick someone to replace Andreas, I'd go with the (INSANELY) underappreciated David Warner (seen on B5 as the original seeker in Grail).
                        "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by NotKosh
                          Agreed, no to Richard Dean Anderson, who has not shown the depth.

                          If, if if if if, I had to pick someone to replace Andreas, I'd go with the (INSANELY) underappreciated David Warner (seen on B5 as the original seeker in Grail).

                          the thing about b5 unlike many other shows is the voice of the chars, in st:tng the voices were picard and worf, in ds9 the VOICE was sisko
                          in B5 the voices were Londo, G'Kar, Stephen, Deleen (sorry ivonova, sheridan, sinclair, garibaldi, etc) as it was those 4 who TOLD the story

                          so if to ever replace them it won't be looks it will be voice and pressence, i could see michal dorn doing a pretty damned good g'kar or other stage actors who an do the "voice of athority" stephen doesn't need to be there "oh he's off at xyz event fro earth dome or on abc mission to mimbar"

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by AmyG
                            It's true, in television you never have to preach to the cheap seats. <g> But it isn't just a difference in intensity or volume; there's a certain 'stageyness' to the performance you'd give in theater, that we used to see in television (think Twilight Zone) that we no longer see. Joe gave us that in Babylon 5, and for that, if nothing else, I'm really grateful to him. I miss that style a lot -- I'm quite weary of the current trend toward hyper-realism, and that Aaron Sorkin-esque way of mumbling and characters talking over one another.
                            Definately, although the show was always compaired to the modern Star Trek series in many ways I actually found it alot closer to stuff like Starwars when it came to the characters. One of my favourite things about sci fi/fantasy is that it gives you a certain detachment from reality that lets you keep those larger than life characters without losing the emotional connection to them due to lack of realism.

                            As others have said I don't really see the Doctor Who comparason as being very relevant as while each new actor may have been playing the same person they each had a very different character. In B5's case however you'd be employing someone to try and replicate another actors performance.
                            moreorless
                            Confirmed User
                            Last edited by moreorless; 09-01-2006, 01:17 PM.
                            Who are you?
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                            • #59
                              NotKosh, I'm a huge fan of David Warner's, but I still would nix anyone taking Andreas's place as G'Kar. But now you've made me want to go and pull out my DVD of "Time Bandits"...

                              Lunan, no disrespect intended, but what Andreas brought to the role of G'Kar was a heck of a lot more than a deep voice. By that criteria, we could replace him with Isaac Hayes or Barry White or James Earl Jones. Or Trey Parker using a pitch shifter and doing his Satan voice from South Park. I'm not saying Michael Dorn isn't a competent actor, but I honestly don't think he could pull it off. At least David Warner is in the same ballpark with regard to talent and gravitas.

                              But no one will take Andreas's place, and I'm glad that's JMS's opinion, too.

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                              • #60
                                Andreas was a great actor, and he was G'kar.

                                perhaps in 20 years or so there will be a new audience who could know G'kar as someone else. But for those of us who "lived through" B5 and saw G'kar grow and change there is no one else. I honestly think I would rather not watch than see any actor, no mater how accomplished fill his shoes.
                                It would just remind me of what we have lost.

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