What was wrong with Legend of the Rangers?

[RCmodeler]

Originally posted by grumbler
I just wish JMS hadn't been so eager to try out some "new concepts" in LotR that ended up, IMO, looking goofy as hell.

I must be getting old and senile. I watched LOTR, and even though I did not think it was good (just as I did not think the Gathering was good), I don't remember LOTR being "goofy" or bad.

Remind me: What was wrong with Legend of the Rangers?

[Jan]

Remind me: What was wrong with Legend of the Rangers?

One of the main things that people disliked was the weapons system on the Liandra. The idea of the weapons officer kicking and punching etc. didn't seem to sit well. Me, I loved the panoramic view of space that it afforded.

Others don't like the idea of the Hand as an enemy. I don't think we saw enough to judge whether they're all-powerful. All we have so far is one race's opinion and one encounter. One says 'all powerful', the other says 'kinda stupid'. Only the series would have told.

My opinion is that many fans loved the idea of B5 as being new and exciting but they don't necessarily like new and exciting in the universe they've come to know and get comfortable with.

For me, the only thing really 'wrong' with it was to over-repeated "We live for the One, we die for the One."

I liked the new characters and the fact that the Liandra wasn't sleek and new. I'd especially have liked to get to know the Narn engineer and Dulann better.

Jan

[AaronB]

In terms of there not being a series after the movie (ie what was wrong with Legend), the ratings were just not there for the movie. Although it was up against one of the more exciting football games (New England vs Oakland in the infamous tuck game). Even though the Sci-fi management took that into consideration, it didn't matter.

[Dr Maturin]

<<One of the main things that people disliked was the weapons system on the Liandra. The idea of the weapons officer kicking and punching etc. didn't seem to sit well. Me, I loved the panoramic view of space that it afforded.>>

Yeah, that looked pretty silly. Every show has its silly points, especially early in a series. Remember the Garibaldi/Lennier scene on the Ninja?

[RCmodeler]

The weird thing is that the "human interface to weapons" is really not a new idea. It's been used in science fiction novels and worked extremely well.

I think the fault is with either the actress or director... they made it look unprofessional... whereas a real human-weapon interface would not require anything more than pointing a finger. The engineer would design the system for minimal physical action, so the pilot would not wear herself out.

i.e. The way that ships were flown in Earth: Final Conflict.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Yeah, that looked pretty silly. Every show has its silly points, especially early in a series. Remember the Garibaldi/Lennier scene on the Ninja?

Yeah, but that was intended to be humerous and silly... the weapons design was intended to be taken seriously.

One of the things I always loved most about B5 was there was a sense of realism to it. When LotR was airing, I had to set my VCR to tape it since I was to be out that night, and when I got to that point in the tape, I had to turn it off for a few minutes cause it just seemed... really lame. But worse then that, the way it was done it just seemed very unrealistic.

The Hand wasn't that big of a deal to me, and I thought the cast was alright for the most part, I *liked* them having a crappy ship, but the basic plot of the story was weak to me, and just had a bad sci-fi feel to it that I couldn't shake. A lot of people say it was on par with The Gathering, but I remember watching The Gathering when it was first aired and getting a *much* *much* different feeling from it... an incredible excitement for something I had never seen in sci-fi before, something I could even... believe in, to a degree.

LotR wasn't it for me. Had it turned into a series I would have given it a chance, just as I gave Stargate SG-1 a chance (which paid off quite well, for a time), but I can't say I was anywhere near as thrilled for it as I was when I first watched The Gathering.

[grumbler]

What Kevin said. The whole kickboxing thing was... well, goofy as hell. I mean, the weapons officer couldn't even see everything around the ship while she was focussed on "kicking the crap out of" something else, and as RCM said, the WO would be exhausted in any real battle.

Agree with Kevin that this one just didn't seem... "right" in so many ways. I was more excited about Crusade after its awful fight-scene opening than I was about TLotR after its pilot, and TLoTR nominally had everything going for it.

The concept was fine, the acting fine, and the effects were fine. What failed were the dialogue and the plot, and those are usually strengths of JMS. Maybe the plot problems were because he was setting things up, but there was no excuse for the dialogue.

*Minbari warrier (scratchy voice voice) "There is a hole in your script!" [BOOM!]*

[RCmodeler]

Originally posted by Kevin
A lot of people say it was on par with The Gathering, but I remember watching The Gathering when it was first aired and getting a *much* *much* different feeling from it... an incredible excitement for something I had never seen in sci-fi before, something I could even... believe in, to a degree.

Ditto, but if I watched the Gathering TODAY, I'd probably think, "What's this crap?" In fact, I DO say that.

The difference is that in 1993, there was nothing else. Just Star Trek TNG with its slow-moving models and the corny effects of Doctor Who. We didn't see "The Gathering" as flawed, because we did not know it could be better.

But in 2000 when Legend of the Rangers aired, we had seen Space: Above & Beyond, Earth: Final Conflict, Babylon 5, Crusade, Star Trek TNG, DS9, VOY, X-Files... yada yada yada.... we were MUCH more discriminating... and unforgiving.



Anyway, just as those goofy lighted masks and Delenn's bad makeup was removed from "The Gathering"... and removed the pixelated Amiga graphics... I think JMS would have removed the kickboxing weapons officer from Legend of the Rangers. JMS might make mistakes first time out, but he's quick to fix them.

I predict the system would be "upgraded" to a more elegant interfect like Earth: Final Conflict used.

[Kevin]

I dunno, I'm actually gonna go out and disagree on this one, but only on the basis that actually *did* watch The Gathering today and it brought a smile to my face and I was able to enjoy it quite thoroughly with my girlfriend, who hadn't seen it before (she's only in Season 2 at the moment, and loving every minute of it it seems). Now I'm probably gonna pop in some Season 1 eps cause I'm in that mood at the moment.

On contrast, I don't think I could watch LotR again. In fact, I know I couldn't... cause I have it on a tape about 5 feet away and I've only watched it the one time ;P

But you are definetly right, we've been given a hell of a lot better Sci-Fi since The Gathering... which is probably why I expected so much more from a pioneer in sci-fi television.

As for the weapons system... had it gone to a series, chances are much greater it would have just been scrapped entierly. Fan reaction was pretty nasty about it, and JMS has always been good to listening to the fans when they had valid complaints.

Of course it didn't go to series, of course... and I wish I had felt more for it, but I didn't. Like Grumbler said, the horrible fight scene in the first episode of Crusade got me more excited then this pilot did.

But we move on to whatever place JMS is now guiding us to

[RCmodeler]

I was cheering for Legend of the Rangers to go to a series... not because I liked the movie, but I figured JMS would pick up the Crusade-Virus arc, and move it over to the new series. In other words, TNT killed the show, but not the story.

And I think Sci-Fi Channel was foolish to turn it down. It had a built-in audience, a producer proven to be reliable and bring in shows *under* budget (important for a small station like SFC), and all the set/actors already hired and in place. It was a no brainer IMHO. About equivalent to refusing to make Star Trek.

(sigh) Oh well.

[Kevin]

Sci-Fi is not known for their shrewd buisness-making ability

[CRONAN]

A few quotes relevent to this forum:


The reply: "You were *exhausted*. You did five years of backbreaking work, you
were averaging 3-4 hours sleep a night if you were lucky, you lost your hair,
your health, and a good-sized chunk of your sanity...you were *tired*. The
best thing would've been if there had been a year break between B5 and Crusade,
to give you a chance to catch your breath. Would it have made a difference to
TNT's decision? No. They changed their mind about the show based on their new
ratings surveys before you ever shot a frame of film. But you wouldn't be
sensing that lack of energy in the episodes now.

"Look at the stuff now: the Rising Stars screenplay is getting fast-tracked,
the studio and the network love (title deleted until press release is issued),
it's some of your best work ever, and Rangers has the energy that B5 always
had, that Crusade didn't. It's still better than 95% of what's out there, but
it's not you writing at the top of your top form."

[Capt.Montoya]

minority report

I did like the weapons system of the Liandra.

The problem is that they gave info on what it was and it was hyped as a very-cool-will-blow-you-away thing (by JMS himself, I think, and I might be exaggerating what happened)... it wasn't as good as I imagined it, but trying to judge it independently from my expectations I think it was good.

It could (should) have been improved if TLotR became a series but it wasn't as bad.

That's only my minority opinion, of course.

[Natxomann]

Legend of the Rangers had several things (supossedly) wrong :
1 - The infamous weapon system . Most of fans found it silly (myself included) and hated it so much , that at their eyes , it made the entire movie appear as crap . However , after knownig why and how the gunnery pod scenes were done , and the fact that was a new , experimental idea that had poor recepcion , one can easyly forgive JMS .
2 - Strange SFX , that were really inferior to those seen on A Call to Arms , although (my opinion again) they were not bad when compares to those of seasons 1-3 and Crusade , only different .
3 - The airing date & hour , that was responsible for the poor ratings . Add to that the erratical policies of SciFi channel , and take a good look at what happens .
4 - The Hand idea . As many people has repeatedly said , after a certain number of "ancient , uberpowerful" (at least theoretically)enemies/adversaries/whatever , people becomes tired of this .
5 - But the main factor was the vast majority of the B5 fans . They had great expectations on the new movie , and when they saw that the standard was not up to the level of Babylon 5 , A Call to Arms , or In The Beginning , they were dissapointed (well , The Gathering was not up to the level of any of those , and I think that its overall quality was even inferior to LotR , but again , that is my opinion) . Add to those factors the B5 fanbase well known phobia against changes , (someone remembers how fans reacted when Ivanova was replaced by Lochley? , and how many people hates/despises season 5 due to that?) to a almost completelly new cast (WHAT? , no Delenn , Sheridan or Ivanova?) , G┤Kar excepted .
Just my 0.02 Euro .

[Davco92]

The things that I found most annoying in LotR were:

1) Silly weapons system interface

2) Weakly staged/set-up destruction of the Flying Brick. It just wasn't believable in my book. It felt like a forced plot device rather than part of a well crafted tale.

3) Cliche new villain. "What? Oh...ANOTHER ancient race dedicated to destruction...gotcha. Hey, somebody call John and let him know, OK." If JMS had been given the chance to develop The Hand I probably would have liked the ancient/mysterious angle so long as it didn't feel contrived. In other words, if The Hand turned out to be the Thirdspace Aliens or related/tied to them or the Shadows/First Ones then I probably would have like them. If they just seemed to be invented so the show would have a villain then I probably would have reacted more negatively.

4) Ghosts haunting a spaceship? Seemed a bit weak to me and possible out of place. It just didn't "feel" right.

Now, what did I LIKE about LtoR (aside from the fact that it was ANYTHING new from JMS)? I liked most of the crew of the Liandra and thought there was plenty of potential there once the actors grew into their characters a bit. I really enjoyed seeing Andreas Katsulas again; he's a pleasure to see perform. I enjoyed learning more about the Rangers, how they are trained and function. I also liked the Liandra and the fact that it was NOT cutting edge technology.

Just my take on things.