Babylon 5- The Lost Tales *SPOILERS*

[Andrew_Swallow]

And not counting Tivo'd viewings really ticks me off because I'm one of those. Since I work nights, my roommate just Tivo's them all and we watch them together when we're all home. Yes, we fast-forward throught he commercials, but hell, who doesn't and who wouldn't if they had the chance. What the advertisers need to realize is that even at fast-forward, their messages are getting through. It's called subliminal advertising. I can still tell you what commercials I skipped and what they were for. Sometimes, I even stop one because it catches my eye.

Someone has to tell advertisers that repeats are boring. Seeing the same advert 4 times in an hour is an over dose on adverts. When they repeat all evening it is a big motivation for fast forwarding through the adverts.

A simple start is to ration an advert to once per hour and once per show.

[Radhil]

I'm all over the Tivo (and I am intentionally leaving out a rant regarding Tivo subscription fees, because that would dwarf your epicus, CE). BSG, Heroes, Lost, all of it gets Tivo'd because I ironically have more of a chance to sit down during the daytime, while I'm futzing with bills or computers. That and my schedule sucks, but what else is new.

In as much as I'd like to go to direct downloads and screw the commercials and what not, it won't happen. They can't get mere downloads right (I am NOT buying an entire season of Lost because I missed one episode, and NBC, fix your damn forcefed ads so I don't have to watch Robin Williams DVD ads 12 damn times just to catch my lost Heroes). The advertising industry itself is far too invasive, and it'd just find a way to embed itself in whatever outlet the creatives turn to (you know WB is gonna have it's way with Lost Tales, regardless of new B5 holy sanctity and all).

One thing I know has no fans that I'm trying to watch: Dresden. Yeah, it's schtick. But it's likeable, like SG has been, and it lowers my bar so I don't take the good stuff for granted. Like most fans do. (see how I tied in a pointless rant right there?)

[colonyearth]

I put up with it for many years, but in the last year they have lost me, there are too many people who are trolling the boards, saying some of the most assanine things i have ever read. I have no problem with someone who doesnt like a show and can give a good reason as to why not liking it, or presenting their point in a mature manner, but I just couldnt take all the rone moore sucks, bsg sucks .. ratings suck, old bsg rocks .. etc posts. I came back to the boards in december for the lost room, which i found to be an interesting premise, and at those boards it was all about bashing it and bashing sci fi for cancelling stargate .. which has nothing to do with lost room ..
As far as gateworld goes, i found the forums to be interesting up until stargate was cancelled, then for alot of members, it became a place to bash sci fi .. for cancelling a show that had been on the air for 10 years, 5 of which never would have existed if not for sci fi .. not to mention the spin off which was already guranteed a 4th year, then the bashing moved over to their bsg forum, taking alot of the same form, how could this show be on when stargate wasnt .. or typing things like .. well .. i like bsg, but i am not going to watch it because i am boycotting sci fi .. heh ..

...this has by far been the place with the most intellectual conversations, it has allowed me to keep what is left of my sanity :P

This is exactly what I'm talking about. And this is exactly why BSG might not get a 4th season...which will truly anger me, especially given that it's idiots that caused it to happen. Why does one SF show have to be in competition with another? As fans we should welcome good, well written and inspired SF. Some of the same things were said about Sci-fi when they cancelled Farscape and brought in Stargate, but Stargate remained and in some form still remains to this day. Even SG-1 is getting two direct to DVD movies a la B5 and may still get a big screen film out of it all. I do get angry also that Sci-fi might cancel BSG claiming ratings drops, but they're the ones that screwed around with their rockin' Sci-Friday line-up; it's echoes of what happened when Farscape bit the dust. What has always gotten me, especially today with shows available for download on sites like i-tunes, is that Sci-fi never counts the ratings for the second airing (all us B5 folks know that one all too well) and they most likely won't take into consideration that while BSG's ratings might have slipped a bit (and why not running during regular season network timeslots against jugernauts like Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewifes), they don't count the afore mentioned second airing, they don't count TIVO recordings (yes they can and do know who's just recording it but they don't care since it's the sponsors who really rule and they think they're being fast-forwarded through...and they are), and they won't, most likely consider the fact that BSG is the 5th most downloaded show on i-tunes and sites like it...where Universal is making money off of it, but not Sci-fi directly. I could be wrong and, even though Sci-fi is owned by Universal, they could be getting a piece of the action from downloads.

What the industry needs to learn (it is learning, slowly, but not fast enough to help save inspired television like BSG) is that people are tired of commercial television. They want their shows and they want them straight through. DVD, downloading, etc. have all spoiled us.

And not counting Tivo'd viewings really ticks me off because I'm one of those. Since I work nights, my roommate just Tivo's them all and we watch them together when we're all home. Yes, we fast-forward throught he commercials, but hell, who doesn't and who wouldn't if they had the chance. What the advertisers need to realize is that even at fast-forward, their messages are getting through. It's called subliminal advertising. I can still tell you what commercials I skipped and what they were for. Sometimes, I even stop one because it catches my eye.

There are solutions. All showings should be considered. And fans should stop bickering and all join to demand more well made, well written and inspired SF. Our voice is louder when we speak as one. B5 taught us that. Which is probably why this is the most intelligent forum to visit. We B5'ers are a...well, I like to think we're a special lot, a bit above the rabble, who like to think sometimes.

Peace,
CE

Yes, here I return with my mile long posts...oops.

[Jan]

any word on the date i can buy the discs?

July 27. Dunno about pre-ordering yet.

Jan

[Lunan]

any word on the date i can buy the discs?

[arius]

I used to post on both Scifi.com forums and on gateworld, but because of how negative those boards had become i had to stop posting for the sake of my sanity. I have always found scifi.com forum boards to be pretty bad in general, maybe because its an easy forum to find if you are just doing general searches. I put up with it for many years, but in the last year they have lost me, there are too many people who are trolling the boards, saying some of the most assanine things i have ever read. I have no problem with someone who doesnt like a show and can give a good reason as to why not liking it, or presenting their point in a mature manner, but I just couldnt take all the rone moore sucks, bsg sucks .. ratings suck, old bsg rocks .. etc posts. I came back to the boards in december for the lost room, which i found to be an interesting premise, and at those boards it was all about bashing it and bashing sci fi for cancelling stargate .. which has nothing to do with lost room ..
As far as gateworld goes, i found the forums to be interesting up until stargate was cancelled, then for alot of members, it became a place to bash sci fi .. for cancelling a show that had been on the air for 10 years, 5 of which never would have existed if not for sci fi .. not to mention the spin off which was already guranteed a 4th year, then the bashing moved over to their bsg forum, taking alot of the same form, how could this show be on when stargate wasnt .. or typing things like .. well .. i like bsg, but i am not going to watch it because i am boycotting sci fi .. heh ..

I have been reading these boards for over 6 years, and posting the last couple, this has by far been the place with the most intellectual conversations, it has allowed me to keep what is left of my sanity :P

[grumbler]

Just take a look at SciFi.com's Battlestar Galactica forum; it's just always such negative comments and utter nonsense that really upsets me. Tis why I enjoy smaller forums like this *much* more, where that's really not much of an issue. It's just something something that always seems to happen in the bigger arenas.

You are probably lucky I don't post there, then. I loved BSG's willingness to take their characters to dark places, but hate the trite way they get them out of the dark places. I like the show well enough, but it is the classic case of "all hat, no cattle."

Give me a B5 rerun I haven't seen in a year to a new ep of BSG any day.

And totally new B5? Whaaaaahooooow!

[grumbler]

With Chen, he went all over the place and did not do at all what was expected, which is why I don't think many B5 fans dig his style. It simply wasn't your everyday score.

This is exactly why it was so perfect for a show with characters who were so likely to do the unexpected. Well said.

[Kevin]

I was specifically in a mood that day, tired of sci-fi's second biggest obstacle (aside from an industry that doesn't respect it)...the fans. So often great shows die because the fans are either too hard and don't bend and give things time or they aren't hard enough (Star Trek) soon enough to make changes come about sooner.

This is something that's *very* true, and it bothers me more then anything else. So many fans are so impatient and quick to judge, and always way too centered on the negatives than any of the positives.

Just take a look at SciFi.com's Battlestar Galactica forum; it's just always such negative comments and utter nonsense that really upsets me. Tis why I enjoy smaller forums like this *much* more, where that's really not much of an issue. It's just something something that always seems to happen in the bigger arenas.

[colonyearth]

Yes, I'm back and of course I missed you all terribly!

Of course, I am only back here and there so it may be some time between posts, so like Galen, "expect me when you see me."

And, as usual, I struck a nerve. Glad to see I've still got me touch.

I was specifically in a mood that day, tired of sci-fi's second biggest obstacle (aside from an industry that doesn't respect it)...the fans. So often great shows die because the fans are either too hard and don't bend and give things time or they aren't hard enough (Star Trek) soon enough to make changes come about sooner.

Anyway, I'm happy to be returning to you and may I bring the blessings of Boo-Gee (oh sorry, he's already here, um)...may I bring the blessings of Ka-ka-ri-sho-ta-nayha (click-click) (some multisyllabic word that's frankly unpronouncable)nee-nee-ra-ke-ton!

Of course don't ask me to repeat that name again, nor who the hell he/she/it is...I just sensed it wanted me to convey it's blessings.

TAH!

For now...
CE

[Boo Gee]

While I like Franke's work on B5, and believe most of seasons 3-5 score to be absolutely amazing, I certainly prefer Chen's Crusade work. As a bass player, I thought Chen's sense of rythm, diverse musical styles, and, for a lack of a better term, soul brought way more to the table than Franke. When you listen to a Franke score, you know exactly what you're getting (with the exception to the score from the ep with the Sheridan bar fight), in other words, a straight up orchestral piece (though extremely well done). With Chen, he went all over the place and did not do at all what was expected, which is why I don't think many B5 fans dig his style. It simply wasn't your everyday score. It's prog-orchestral. Gimme King Crimson over Zep anyday.

Viva la Chen!

[AmyG]

Shadow-Sentient, I'll be eagerly reading your comments when you have time to proffer them. I'm also an honest-to-god schooled musician (SUNY at Stony Brook -- it's hard not to feel underqualified next to my husband, though, who's an Oberlin grad <g>), and while I've grown to accept Chen's scoring, I don't really care for it. And it's not because I don't understand or like what we in the biz call "20th/21st century serious music" -- that used to be my entire milieu when I worked in music publishing, and I've attended more performances of works by Berg, Stravinsky, Szymanowski, Berio, Penderecki, Subotnick, Hindemith, Glass, (and other people too obscure to mention) etc. etc., than you could shake a stick at. With Chen, though, I feel like he was still finding his footing, and that it was maybe an issue of unfamiliarity with the concept of scoring a visual work. I dunno; that's just my off-the-cuff observation, not having heard his work in some time now (I'm still on a watching-hiatus, after several years of continuous viewing and at least eight full times through all the materials). I may be motivated to listen again if this conversation gets interesting.

Amy

[Jan]

Not available yet. JMS said that they'd likely show up online and/or on the DVDs so stay tuned.

Jan

[b5finland]

Where can i find these video blogs ? Somebody tell me

[Shadow-Sentient]

I guess you're a musician? I'm not, and back when I first saw Crusade (1999 on TNT), the music in some of the places in A Call to Arms and Crusade didn't feel right to me, either. However, now, I'll be damned if I can find any of those places other than the end credits "music" (noise) from Ruling from the Tomb. All the rest seems A-OK to me now, and adds just the right otherworldly, strange and alien feel to the show.

I am a musician, you are correct. I teach writing, notation, composition, theory, harmony, etc. for a living. So, you are spot on with your observation. ACTA (A Call to Arms) was the first true "Uh-Oh" I experienced with Babylon5. Crusade itself was also too minimalist given the nature of what was happening on screen and I found myself being under-impressed with the on-screen action. I honesly couldn't pin-point it on my first watch ... it was the second time through, the 'okay, I'll give it another chance' viewing, when I zeroed in on how bad the soundtrack was. The keyboard I mentioned, the Korg Wavestation, is an instrument I used to own. The 'pre-sequenced' waves on it are unmistakeable. You can literally hold a key down and it will repeat a wave (sampled and looped sound) over and over and it will sound like a couple of instruments in one.
Anyway, it's really easy to overdo it with that keyboard ... but it's also terribly easy to underdo it, and that's the case with ACTA/Crusade. When you compare it with Franke's work on B5 it's simply hollow.

I could run A Call to Arms and Crusade past my cousin Jim, who is a musician, and has a PhD in music and music education, except that he'd never sit still for it. See, he reflexively HATES all sci-fi, and wouldn't be able to refrain from trashing every single second of the show and those who enjoy the show, long enough to concentrate on the "music problem." When anything sci-fi comes on, he's completely insufferable, won't shut up, and is a complete ass until somebody gives in and changes the channel/DVD/tape.

I have that same problem with my girlfriend. Who on all other levels would love Babylon 5. She just refuses to watch anything remotely Science Fiction, except the old Twilight Zone episodes. Another thing she and I disagree about is Widescreen and Full Screen. I being the Widescreen snob and she being the Full Screen, "I don't care about the part they cut out" person. Sometimes people just don't care. Unfortunately for me, I do care. I suppose it's an artists perspective and a perfectionists attitude as well. I just like to see things done well and done right.
With regard to your brother, don't bother. Sometimes the world taht other's choose to live in is purposefully smaller. I think it makes it easier for them to deal with.

All I can say is that the music in A Call to Arms and Crusade works for me, with the exception of that one notable example. <shrug>

... and you are fully entitled to your opinion. I won't begrudge you that.

If you could point out any of Evan Chen's A Call to Arms and/or Crusade music that seem most wrong to you, I'd be happy to revisit it and check it out.

[/quote]
I will dust off the dvd's one more time and give them a listen. I guarantee that I'll find something immediately in ACTA. When I have the time to catalogue some of the moments in Crusade, I will. Best ... and thanks for the comments.