Babylon 5- The Lost Tales *SPOILERS*

[Jan]

Based on what little we know so far, it's quite possible that we might see Marcus, imo. What JMS said at ComicCon was:

...basing a lot of them on stories I had for the series but never had a chance to actually put into gear-a bunch of different stories I never had time to produce.

So they could be from any time at all, I'd think.

Jan

[Joseph DeMartino]

1) Jan is absolutely right, given all JMS's previous statements there is no way he is recasting Zathras for any of the Lost Tales, which are going to mostly focus on one character at a time. There is a tiny chance that if he had absolutely no way around it that he might use another actor to play Zathras for the bare mininum amount of screen time if that's the only way he could tell the story he wants to tell in a theatrical film. But I suspect he'd be able to find a way to write around that.

2) Doing a CGI creature like Yoda or Kong is one thing. Generating something that can truly replace a living, breathing, human actor? We're not even close at this time, whatever George Lucas happens to think. (He also thinks that he's a competent screenwriter, Jar-Jar Binks was a worthwhile character and that The Phantom Menace was something other than a steaming pile of crap, so my faith in what he believes is incomplete, at best.)

Look how easy it is to spot when they go from the live actor to a CG character in the Star Wars and Spiderman films. The passage of a couple of years has done nothing to change the fundamental problems with this sort of thing. And if Lucas decided the technology wasn't there yet for a movie with the kinds of budgets he's used to playing around with, you can bet it would be flat out impossible to do on a TV schedule and a TV budget.

(What a lot of people forget is that this isn't a matter of raw technology.

You can do huge CGI sequences if you have two years to plan and design them, dozens of digital artists realizing all your spacescraft, explosions and characters and render-farms of high powered computers covering acres of office space and running 24/7 for 24 months to turn out your final product. On a movie you can afford that.

On a TV show you might have 5 or 6 digital artists, a couple of months to plan, a dozen PCs for rendering and 6 weeks from the time you start until the episode gest uplinked to the network.)

So we're not going to see any digital anybodies, for both sentimental and practical reasons. The whole notion of trying to revive a dead actor digitally is just creepy in any event. As much as I love their old stuff, I really don't need to see "new" movies starring Humphrey Bogart and John Wayne, thank you very much.

Regards,

Joe

[AmyG]

Zathras had a limp?

[grumbler]

Zathras had a limp?

No, it was his brother Zathras who had the limp, not Zathras himself.

[SLerman]

No, it was his brother Zathras who had the limp, not Zathras himself.

Are you sure it was Zathras? I always thought it was Zathras that had the limp.

As for CGI, it is possible to render characters that look almost perfectly human. The Spirits Within did a good job of it several years ago. In that case, though, you weren't constantly switching back and forth between CGI and real actors, so it's easier to ignore the minor flaws.

If the story really requires it, I think certain characters are easier to work around than others. Characters like G'kar and Franklin had certain knowledge and aspects that could probably never be transferred to another character. With Zathras not being a main character, it may be a little easier. I can't remember offhand, but if the series never mentioned Zathras being the only caretaker on Epsilon 3 (other than Draal, of course), another character of the same race could be used if that type of knowledge is required.

[B5_Obsessed]

I can't remember offhand, but if the series never mentioned Zathras being the only caretaker on Epsilon 3 (other than Draal, of course), another character of the same race could be used if that type of knowledge is required.

Zathras and his nine brothers were all caretakers of the Great Machine. Of course, Zathras #1 (the quiet one) who went back into the past with Sinclair, was played by Tim Choate. Although Choate made an appearance as another Zathras in Season 4, one of the Zathrii was played by another actor alongside Choate's Zathras in the opening of War Without End, Part 1. I have no idea who that actor was.

[vacantlook]

Yeah, but was that another of the Zathrases, or just another of Zathras's species.

[Jan]

Yeah, but was that another of the Zathrases, or just another of Zathras's species.

It was one of his race, not another Zathras. From the script:

ANGLE - ZATHRAS

Shaking his head as he's joined by another of this race, SPRAGG.

According to the Cast list with the script I've got, Spragg was played by Eric Zivot.

Jan

[B5_Obsessed]

See, this is where it pays to have the scripts. Before my invaribly inaccurate post, I went to the Lurker's Guide and did see a listing for "Spragg", played by Eric Zivot. When I cross-referenced the synopsis, nothing came up, so I could neither confirm or deny who Spragg was. For all I knew, he could have been a security officer on B4. I also saw on IMDB that his other B5 credit was as "Verano" in The Summoning". Since this character escapes my recollection as well, I just gave up and hoped for the best.

Epsilon III is getting more crowded all the time. I wonder just how many of those buggers are down there?

[SLerman]

So now the big question is how many brothers does Spragg have, and are they all named Spragg?

[vacantlook]

I also saw on IMDB that his other B5 credit was as "Verano" in The Summoning". Since this character escapes my recollection as well, I just gave up and hoped for the best.

Wasn't Verano one of the Centauri Lords?

[Towelmaster]

1) Jan is absolutely right, given all JMS's previous statements there is no way he is recasting Zathras for any of the Lost Tales, which are going to mostly focus on one character at a time. There is a tiny chance that if he had absolutely no way around it that he might use another actor to play Zathras for the bare mininum amount of screen time if that's the only way he could tell the story he wants to tell in a theatrical film. But I suspect he'd be able to find a way to write around that.

And so he should(IMO), it wouldn't be the same.

2) Doing a CGI creature like Yoda or Kong is one thing. Generating something that can truly replace a living, breathing, human actor? We're not even close at this time, whatever George Lucas happens to think. (He also thinks that he's a competent screenwriter, Jar-Jar Binks was a worthwhile character and that The Phantom Menace was something other than a steaming pile of crap, so my faith in what he believes is incomplete, at best.)

I agree, to me Jar-Jar B. was a merchandising-gimmick, sell more puppets! I never was a HuGe fan of StarWars but that character really made Star Wars descend into the children's realm.

Look how easy it is to spot when they go from the live actor to a CG character in the Star Wars and Spiderman films. The passage of a couple of years has done nothing to change the fundamental problems with this sort of thing. And if Lucas decided the technology wasn't there yet for a movie with the kinds of budgets he's used to playing around with, you can bet it would be flat out impossible to do on a TV schedule and a TV budget.

Well that was my question; StarWars I was made in 1999, and in computerland 7 years is an eternity. Mind you: I was still referring to perhaps some flashbacks with G'Kar, absolutely not with a full fledged part. I would think that that would be insulting to Andreas Katsulas(or Richard Biggs). After all: they weren't there just for the looks.

The whole notion of trying to revive a dead actor digitally is just creepy in any event. As much as I love their old stuff, I really don't need to see "new" movies starring Humphrey Bogart and John Wayne, thank you very much.
Regards,
Joe

Absolutely. On the other hand, you never know what jms will come up this time. Perhaps he'll surprise everybody.

[Joseph DeMartino]

Well that was my question; StarWars I was made in 1999, and in computerland 7 years is an eternity.

TPM was made in 1999 - but The Lord of the Rings, King Kong, Episode III and Spiderman 2 are all much more recent and they still haven't managed to produce a CGI replacement for a human or a 100% CGI character that is undetectable. In fact, one of the notable things about the technology is that it hasn't advanced was much since the days of Jurassic Park as one might have expected. They were only able to do a couple of minutes of CGI in that film, given the coal-fired computers they were using at the time, but the quality of the resulting images is not much inferior to the much more ubiquitous and frenetic creatures of Kong.

And, again, you're still talking TV budgets vs. movie budgets, no matter what else changes. The improvements in technology will probably allow JMS to do more and more elaborate virtual sets on a TV budget and schedule - which will be a great thing for a project like The Lost Tales - but that still doesn't put him in the ballpark of doing a fully-realized, believeable human being. A better and more interesting Narkaleen Feeder, yes. A character who can stand next to Sheridan or Delenn and look just like another actor in make-up and costume? Not anytime soon.

Regards,

Joe

[Joseph DeMartino]

Zathras had a limp?

Who said Zathras had a limp? There was a reference to Zack having a limp (in "SiL") further up in the thread, but I don't think anyone said Zathras had one.

(BTW, there is some reason to believe that Zack's limp was picked up during the Teep War. Asked why nobody mentioned Lyta at Sheridan's "last supper" JMS once said, "Who among them really had a close relationship with Lyta? Name me that person...

...Had Zack been there, then yeah, maybe he would've named Lyta (or not, given what happens with her later). THAT would have been appropriate." (Emphasis added. - JD)

Regards,

Joe

[Joe Nazzaro]

Having been on set during the filming of SIL, my take was that Jeff Conaway was just making an acting choice to make his character appear older. I don't have the script in front of me, so I can't recall if there was any stage direction about that or not. I also seem to recall that Richard Biggs had a limp at some point in the episode as well, but if anybody wants to pull out the DVD and double-check, I'm perfectly happy to be corrected.