Gathering / Beginning DVDs Question

[PatWalker]

Hi all,

While cleaning out my DVD shelf (major project...) I discovered my long forgotten copy of the original DVD release of The Gathering and In The Beginning. The WB release with no extras. Since I also have the movie box set, do I still need the single DVD release?

Simply, is the version of the two movies the same in both releases?

(And before anyone comments - I have the CH video release of the original version of The Gathering. One of less than a dozen video tapes I still own.)

Thanks!
Pat Walker

[OmahaStar]

The release you have is essentially the same as on the movie collection, just without the commentaries, and hasn't been "cleaned up" ... Now, that is, unless you have the European release. Over there, somehow, some of the discs on that are the original version of The Gathering. *shrug*

[Whyruss]

I have the original version on DVD... perhaps I'll buy the second edition one day - but to be honest I don't watch the pilot often because of the wrong representation of the Vorlons

[AmyG]

Wow. That's a very interesting comment. What exactly do you mean by "wrong representation"? I've never heard that mentioned before.

[Whyruss]

Wow. That's a very interesting comment. What exactly do you mean by "wrong representation"? I've never heard that mentioned before.

Well - how do you poison someone who doesn't have a physical form? In the pilot Kosh has some sort of green (or grey - I can't remember it exactly) hand...
Then the Vorlons want Sinclair on their homeworld for trial and nearly destroy Babylon 5 with a huge fleet... come on - that doesn't really fit to the Vorlons we used to know from the series...

[OmahaStar]

Well - how do you poison someone who doesn't have a physical form? In the pilot Kosh has some sort of green (or grey - I can't remember it exactly) hand...
Then the Vorlons want Sinclair on their homeworld for trial and nearly destroy Babylon 5 with a huge fleet... come on - that doesn't really fit to the Vorlons we used to know from the series...

Well now, that depends on what you believe happened at the end of "War Without End" ... If one of those Vorlons was Kosh, and became close to Valen/Sinclair, it's absolutely possible Kosh was told of certain things to make sure it played out again in the next time loop.

[AmyG]

I don't see a disparity. In "The Fall of Night," Kosh in his angelic form takes Sheridan's hand to keep him from falling too fast. So we know that the Vorlons can take a physical form when necessary. Clearly, upon meeting Sinclair(/Valen) for the first time, Kosh wanted to have a hand so that he could greet him physically.

If you take Kosh's hand as having physical presence in "The Fall of Night" - physical enough to grab onto Sheridan's hand - you'd have to accept its physicality - having enough physical form to be poisoned - in "The Gathering."

[Jan]

I agree with Amy that the physical hand, though seeming awkward coming from the encounter suit isn't an issue. I agree with Whyruss, though, that the way the Vorlon government was depicted was 180 degrees off kilter. The not wanting the encounter suit breached was okay, the warlike attitude and wanting Sinclair sent back to the Vorlon Homeworld, though, struck me as wrong. Which, I'm sure is why we pretty much didn't hear from the Vorlon government again later on. The Vorlons were one of the races that changed drastically from the treatment to the series.

Jan

[Andrew_Swallow]

The design of the Vorlon encounter suit changed during the filming of this episode, the original design had hands. The script should have been changed to show the poison entering at the neck or back.

The Vorlons destroying the spacestation is within character û they destroy any spaceship entering their space.

In the Vorlon's defence they did not actually destroy the spacestation but put on a show of force. This will have sent a message across the galaxy û the Vorlons are dangerous sons of bitches do not get in their way.

[vacantlook]

I think this is an interesting take on the whole assassination attempt in "The Gathering".

Who Framed Sinclair?

[SLerman]

The Vorlons coming after Sinclair isn't really that much out of character. Remember that when Kosh is killed by the Shadows, Lyta mentions that it had been a long time since a Vorlon had died, and they didn't take it very well. If it had been a thousand years (wild guess) since one of your species had died, you'd probably be a bit ticked off if some lowly creature tried to kill one of your friends.

[Laiden]

SLerman actually makes a great point, as does Amy and Jan

I watch it all! and I kept every release that has come out . . . thats just the B5 collector in me . . . I dont think I'll ever watch that release again, but its cool to have it

[Capt.Montoya]

Going by memory, since the Kosh poisoning discussion has surface often...

The hand is there because we see Kosh from Lyta's Point of View. Is not the actual hand of Kosh, but Lyta seeing a hand and superimposing her human concept of how a hand looks (remember, she had never seen a Vorlon before).
Vorlons do have a physical substance to them, they are some sort of crystalline lifeform even if they appear more like "energy".
Kosh did not allow himself to be poisoned.

The above is a rephrase of some actual JMS posts.
The following parts from JMS comments but has some speculation from me:

Kosh thinking "Entil z'ha Valen" (he didn't say it out loud, it's only in Lyta's scan where that comes up) upon seeing "Sinclair" is a big clue that Kosh didn't really know in advance that he would find him there. Kosh and Ulkesh didn't board B4 until it was in the past and Sinclair had become Valen. It's likely that Sinclair/Valen didn't tell everything to the Vorlons, it is likely that Sinclair/Valen remembered that the actions of the Vorlons during Kosh's arrival at B5 indicated they didn't know about his destiny in the past, so he would have avoided telling them.

[grumbler]

The Vorlons were not "coming after Sinclair" or necesarily "wanting Sinclair sent back to the Vorlon Homeworld," they were giving the appearance of those two motives.

Construing Vorlon motives from Vorlon actions is dangerous at the very least.

[cornholio1980]

Well, maybe since Vorlons seem somehow to be connected telepathically (or at least they are able to do so) maybe Kosh send his thoughts over to the other Vorlons, and they decided Valen would be safer if he were with them?