Question about B5 Military

[Dev]

Howdy all, I'm new here and have a question;

Is there a military structure within B5? Such as Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and if so what are they named? I have read that there are Marines and such but what does that mean exactly?
Do the other races have a similar structure? What are the names?

Thanks for any and all input!

[Dr Maturin]

Search --> advanced search --> enter "marines" --> select "show results as posts" --> click enter

http://jmsnews.com/forums/search.php?searchid=91214

[SLerman]

I believe the soldiers in GROPOS are all Marines. When a small squad is running through the corridors, one of their lines refers to Earth Force Marine Corps. JMS has also said that the staff on board Babylon 4 would be the equivalent of the Army Corps of Engineers. There doesn't seem to be a truly separate Army and Navy, since the command staff on B5 (Captain and Commander are Navy ranks) takes orders from Generals (an Army rank). Oddly enough, Knight Two says to Sinclair "smart money said you'd make Admiral one day", though I don't remember ever actually seeing or hearing about an admiral at any time during the series.

[Dev]

Search --> advanced search --> enter "marines" --> select "show results as posts" --> click enter

http://jmsnews.com/forums/search.php?searchid=91214

Do you feel better about yourself now?

If this is how you great newcomers to your site I'll be sure to stay away unless you are just a lone asshat and the other members are a tad more courteous.

Thanks SLerman for the info, you at least have some class.

[Jan]

Hi, Dev!

Don't mind ZD, he tends to cryptic and short on words. Rather than following ZD's search suggestion, maybe it would be better to search JMS's posts archived here.

There seems to be conflicting information about the ranks and military structure of B5. Not being much of a military buff, I'm afraid I've never paid much attention. In the B5 Security Manual, all it says is:

EA's military division have different branches, each with a different color uniform. Command staff members wear a traditional blue. Marines olive/brown and Security grey. These are the only constants.

Please don't judge us by one member. Stick around, read the discussions going on and jump on in. Mostly we don't bite. Maybe some of the other folks will be able to help more.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

We've probably gone over this in more than one thread over the years, but we have to remember that the song sung in "GROPOS" ended with "Earthforce Marine Corps." Just like now, the Marine Corps is a corps of the Navy (speaking of Navy, I think it is stupid to call The Earthforce space fleet the "navy," since they probably have a real water-based navy), so the EFMC is just a corps of the space fleet or even the army.

As for ranks, the space fleet probably follows the current US Navy pattern, all the way up to Admiral (and there is ample evidence of admirals in EF). The EA "Army" and Marines probably use the current US Army and Marine ranks.

Why do General Hague and Major Ryan wear blue uniforms that we assume are of the space fleet? As I have stated before, Ryan was probably using a uniform from the ship he was on, as he wouldn't have any spares. Hague could very well have been a Marine general, and remember, the Marines are probably a corps of the space fleet.

Here is a link to some speculation -- some good, some garbage -- on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthforce

[jal]

who`s the twit in the silly hat?

[Stunning_in_Purple]

I think it's all very confusing to be honest. General Franklin was a Marine so that makes since. But if they're going by navy ranks onboard and then switch to army ranks on ships...*confused* The only thing I can think of is spacefleet is the army (makes no sense) and all stationary personel is naval (once again, bit backwards). Although, because of Star Trek, people are more accustomed to naval rank. It's days like this you want to hit someone over the head with a brick.

[Dr Maturin]

I think it's all very confusing to be honest. General Franklin was a Marine so that makes since. But if they're going by navy ranks onboard and then switch to army ranks on ships...*confused*

Who said that?

There is so much evidence that the space fleet uses naval ranks that it isn't even a debate. Sheridan was a captain when we first meet him.

Franklin was a Marine General using space fleet assets to transport his troops because the EFMC is likely a corps of the space fleet. Just like in our current reality. You won't see US Army troops on a Navy vessel, but you will sure see Marines.

Major Ryan wasn't in the space fleet, IMO. Like I said, it's likely that he was using a blue uniform because he was on the run and didn't have any spares. As for B5, it was a service-neutral station, as the third-in-command was a major, which would be one step down from Ivanova (after her promotion in the second season).

[SLerman]

When was there ever a Major stationed on B5 that would have been third-in-command? From what I can remember, the next highest officer after Ivanova was Corwin, so he would be in charge of C&C if Sheridan and Ivanova were both elsewhere.

I seem to remember JMS saying that the branches of EarthForce weren't as divided as the branches of the US military are now. B5 is also an extraordinary situation. If there were both generals and admirals lined up for command of B5, it must not have been a strictly Naval base. Also, Garibaldi was a Chief Warrant Officer, which I think is an Army rank. Of course, he was a military officer in charge of an essentially civilian police force (I don't think it's ever made clear if all B5 security officers are military or if some are civilian police officers).

[Jan]

I don't know if it's in any of the reference books but there's this post and a few others about Major Atumbe.

From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Subject: ATT JMS Who is third in comma
To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Date: 3/13/1995 3:00:00 PM
No Thread


Actually, I think the third in command would be Major Atumbe, who
we've referenced in dialogue on the show, but have never shown. I keep
meaning to do so, but it always ends up feeling forced, and it's hard to
work in new recurring characters when we have something like 16 as it is.

jms

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

I seem to remember JMS saying that the branches of EarthForce weren't as divided as the branches of the US military are now. B5 is also an extraordinary situation. If there were both generals and admirals lined up for command of B5, it must not have been a strictly Naval base.

Just like I said. And in the end, it doesn't matter too much.

Also, Garibaldi was a Chief Warrant Officer, which I think is an Army rank.

No, the Army, Navy and Marines all feature W-1 through W-5 warrant officer ranks.

Like I said, the station's crew makeup was blended, and the chain of command was in the order of grade. Sheridan was in command, Ivanova was second, Atumbe was third (and there were probably other majors on board, as well, but Atumbe was the designated third-in-command), etc. If Atumbe was in a different service, he would still take orders from those who outranked him.

[SLerman]

This is the post I remember reading:

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11216

I guess by that point in the story (middle-to-late Season 4, I think), the Major had silently vanished.

[Dr Maturin]

Yeah, after the secession, it looks like Atumbe was kind of phased out of the chain of command.

[grumbler]

I think the answer to the "Major Ryan" question is actually pretty simple, when you think about it: he was the aide to General Hague, and so carried the appropriate "army-style" title to go with the "army-style" title of Hague. He clearly knew his naval tactics, and probably was "Lieutenant Comander Ryan" in his last assignment or his next one.

"Admiral" was a JMS brainfart and quickly abandoned.

In short, I think the difference between the "army style" ranks and the "navy style" ranks was in the assignment, and in a given paygrade officers were called by the appropriate title for that assignment.