JMS acting out

[Night Marshal]

Wow, its been few weeks since I checked on things here. Jms has been quite very busy we all know how it gets. So I was just looking through JMS's posts in the last few days and I have to say Wow. He's pissed. Not really sure why he has given up on Babylon 5 but wants to have complete control over everything made. That hardly seems fair. I mean to me he looks like he is doing everything he can to kill mongooses sales buy saying ôI in all good conscience cannot endorse them(mongoose books)." I'm sure I will get hammered for this but it seems like a very unfair thing to do on his part. I know he feels scorn and B5 is his baby he doesn't own the rights and mongoose is a small company just trying to make something fans want. Nothing good comes form JMS acting out like this.

[Jan]

Wow, its been few weeks since I checked on things here. Jms has been quite very busy we all know how it gets. So I was just looking through JMS's posts in the last few days and I have to say Wow. He's pissed. Not really sure why he has given up on Babylon 5 but wants to have complete control over everything made. That hardly seems fair. I mean to me he looks like he is doing everything he can to kill mongooses sales buy saying ôI in all good conscience cannot endorse them(mongoose books)." I'm sure I will get hammered for this but it seems like a very unfair thing to do on his part. I know he feels scorn and B5 is his baby he doesn't own the rights and mongoose is a small company just trying to make something fans want. Nothing good comes form JMS acting out like this.

No hammering here except...have you actually read all of what's going on? Mongoose has claimed that JMS is involved and that the books are canon which is simply, demonstrably, untrue. Now then, given that JMS is pretty accessible online, don't you think it's likely that if Mongoose publishes something that goes against anything JMS actually *did* have planned, it's JMS who'll end up getting the grief over it in the future rather than Mongoose? It's not a matter of trying to sink them, it's simply JMS letting people know that he refuses to be bound by whatever Mongoose publishes and tries to call canon. Official, yes they are. Canon, not at all.

Turn it around for a moment. Exactly what good can come from Mongoose's behavior?

Jan

[Night Marshal]

Sadly a have spent the last few hour getting current on all this. I have read all the JMS going on about how mongoose books aren't canon and All of Mr. Strange goings on about how they are canon. At this point I fall on the side of Mongoose. From my point of View JMS has left B5 behind and is now is just trying to cut mongoose out at the knees. I know JMS is the great maker but mongoose aren't bad people and they seem to being attacked as if they are the great satin. Having been formilar with there products for sometime I have nothing but respect for mongoose. I'm open to the fact maybe they have been unfair to JMS, but at this moment thatÆs doesn't seem to be the case to me. JMS just attacks and mongoose just tries to work this out. I guess the way I look at it. This suggest that Mongoose is more on the up and up than JMS on this. But at the same time I'm sure JMS thinks he's right. And when JMS thinks he's right watch out. I agree with you It very unlikely JMS and mongoose will work together. But I would rather JMS just say that as the Creator he has the right to change anything in the future rather than this whole non canon bit.

[Radhil]

From my point of View JMS has left B5 behind and is now is just trying to cut mongoose out at the knees.

I think a guy who's putting out all of his scripts for purchase isn't quite leaving anything behind.

If you like Mongoose, OK, but Joe hasn't really attacked them. Just told them not to say what isn't true. I haven't read the rest of the newsgroup, but I'd imagine there's plenty of attacks by other people. In which case I could understand where you're coming from.

[Jan]

I don't think anybody is saying that Mongoose might just turn out a good story. I think it's possible. Fans are funny about their favorite universes, though, and very protective of them. There were different sides of this long before Mr. Sprange made unfortunate remarks on the podcasts. Many people aren't interested in the books if they're not written from JMS outlines. Many are. And many will try at least one book to see.

None of the disagreement between JMS and Mr. Sprange is any of our business at all and perhaps JMS never should have discussed that there'd been a breakdown in communication back in October. Except that the question about the novels had already come up several times and *I asked for his comment* after reporting what I knew from reading the B5TV boards. He's been answering questions from fans for well over a decade now and people are going to be asking about these books for a long time to come. I think it's best that he put his position on the table right out in front.

As ever, there's stuff we don't know. We don't know if JMS is correct in his characterization of Mr. Sprange's emails. We don't know if Mr. Sprange was genuinely confused between the distinction of 'canon' versus 'official' material. My opinion of the situation is based on what I personally know of the two involved and, for me, JMS's participation and forthrightness over the past 13-14 years counts more with me than Mr. Sprange's, whom I'd never heard of before the talk of novels came up. If only judged by the podcast 'inaccuracies', Mr. Sprange's behavior leaves a lot to be desired.

Jan

[Harrdy]

Lets try to emphasis the points that add to the "pissed" feeling I suppose JMS is feeling. There is a company which makes Roleplaying stuff. They have the idea of printing novels, something JMS *and* the fans like. Then they approach JMS for "input", and he asks them about payment. They offer something a beggar (methaphorical speaking) would turn down and JMS walkes away. THEN they print the books nonetheless BUT they say that JMS had an input there. They say they got documents about the Crusade series. Both that points seem to be wrong (with JMS walking away and all that), so JMS points out that he *did not* work with Mongoose. Maybe he went a little bit to far with pointing out he cannot endorse the books, but then first I guess he is "pissed", and secondly if he said he endorse them *he* would be held accountable for errors and stupid stuff in the boosk. That doesn't mean there *is* stupid stuff in the books, JMS just makes his point in getting away from the books as far as possible, to avoid any connection to his creative work. And if you think about that nowadays the view people have about an artist is even more important than the work of that artist, I can fully understand that reaction...

PeAcE

[phazedout]

Putting in my ywo cents,

I was excited upon hearing the podcast, I bought the (truly terrible) non-trilogy novels just to get a piece of the B5 'verse (firefly schtick there).
Now Jan's referred to podcasts (plural) bu tI only heard the B5 one so can't comment on what else Mongoose may have said.
But,
Having so demonstrably pi**ed JMs off, I'm not sure a recovery position is possible, I'll buy almost ANYTHING B5 like, but I'm not gonna be buying thse novels, as to is JMS pi**ed? You're damn right he is, so would I be in that position.
Phaze
on the "Do not question the gods, for they are quixotic and quick to anger" ID

[Spoo Junky]

I was just wondering...

JMS doesn't read fan fic because he doesn't want to get blamed for "stealing" an idea. If Mongoose comes up with a story that happens to be the same as what's in JMS' B5 Universe outline, can JMS still use that story? You know what I mean?

[Jan]

I imagine it would depend on the degree of similarity. For instance, Mongoose could publish a story about space monsters beyond the rim that are purple and eat only starfuries. If JMS were working on a story about space monsters beyond the rim that are green and only eat white stars, that'd be a problem. But both would be perfectly safe to write different stories about Gideon investigating a conspiracy by Earth New Technologies division if that was the only similarity.

Jan

[Joe Nazzaro]

Night Marshal, you may have spent some time reading the recent posts, but I'm not sure you understand the subtext involved. It wasn't until the folks from Mongoose implied that JMS had some input in the B5 books, and they were working from Joe's outlines for Crusade that he actually came out and said he had no input in the books, and that there were no outlines for Crusade. And lo and behold, after he went on the record, Mongoose had to come out and say he was right. Frankly, I'm not sure Joe would have said a thing if the publisher wasn't basically putting words in his mouth, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm not sure how that equates with turning his back on B5.

And by the way, Joe Straczynski said right from the start that B5 was a five-year arc, which he spent a number of years getting to the small screen. He never stopped fighting for the project, and managed to get his series on the air and tell the five-year story that he had promised from day one. So at what point did he turn his back on the story that he promised to tell, and in fact did?

[SLerman]

If JMS had "given up" on B5, do you think he would have spent so much time trying to put together a feature film? If some studio/network/whatever came to him and offered him a 3-year contract (with renewals if it goes well) for a new television series set in the B5 universe, do you think he would turn that down? Just because there are no B5 projects currently in development (that we know about, anyway), it doesn't mean JMS has given up on B5. I doubt JMS is about to go bankrupt, but I also doubt that he's the kind of multi-millionaire that can sit back and be unemployed just because he isn't working on a B5 project. That's not to mention that, from what I've gathered over the years, JMS would probably go insane if he didn't have stuff to work on 8-12 hours every day. B5 may be JMS's greatest and most popular creation, but he has plenty of others that he can put work into. He's working on something like 4-5 different comic books at the same time, which I'd imagine keeps him fairly busy. You can't claim that he's "left B5 behind" just because he spends time on other projects.

[Jan]

You can't claim that he's "left B5 behind" just because he spends time on other projects.

Right there I think you've hit the nail on the head. Because JMS isn't out knocking on doors trying to drum up a new B5 universe project, people keep making statements about his having abandoned it, given up, turned his back. Gah, do we really want him to be the TV equivalent of Piers Anthony writing the same darned thing over and over (and don't get me wrong, I've loved much of PA's stuff. I just think 30-odd books in the Zanth series is way overdone)?

I don't.

Jan

[phazedout]

you trying to wind me up jan Piers Bashing, I won't have it I tell you.
Phaze
on the "need to decompress" ID

[rallytbk]

All I know is this... If JMS doesn't say something/do something (for the fans) to clarify what is being published/produced/quoted as Babylon 5 Canon, what is official or authorized fan fic by licensees then he could lose his franchise and fans base due to lack of interest or worst... if this continues to happen. How? Think Terminator 3

[Jan]

you trying to wind me up jan Piers Bashing, I won't have it I tell you.

Wind down, Phaze. Honest, I was just trying to think of a writer as prolific as JMS. Really. Would this face lie?

Jan