Jason Ironheart

[Whyruss]

I loved this character of the first season... and I wonder if Mr JMS planed to let him reappear later in the story... perhaps in the telepath war... does anyone have some more infos?

[SLerman]

Probably not in the Telepath War. Ironheart says "I'll see you again, in a million years." In The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, the "current" time is one million years in the future. Coincidence?

[Jan]

I think Jason's main purpose was to give Talia the enhanced abilities. JMS has said in the past that having too powerful characters around isn't good for drama which is one reason he limited the use of Draal. Here's one post he made when asked about Jason Ironheart:

From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Subject: Re: Telepath a bad idea?
To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Date: 3/17/1994 2:56:00 PM

There will be no more Ironhearts, and that character will not
return.

jms

He was definitely an effective guest character, though. I've always wondered a bit if he became more powerful than the First Ones or 'just' an energy being. After all, the First Ones still needed ships and Jason didn't.

Jan

[vacantlook]

After all, the First Ones still needed ships and Jason didn't.

Well, Lorien didn't.

[Spoo Junky]

I think it's better that the First Ones didn't just appear like energy beams from nowhere.

If they have to fly around in ships it shows that they are in not infallible, which is the point, judging by the end of the Vorlon/Shadow conflict.

[Jan]

Well, Lorien didn't.

Didn't he have that white mirror-ball looking ship? Anyway, he was THE First One, not just any garden variety First One.

Jan

[vacantlook]

Didn't he have that white mirror-ball looking ship?

Lorien had a ship that kind of looked like a brown fish that he used to transport himself and Sheridan from Z'ha'dum to Babylon 5. Hee didn't need the ship for himself, only for Sheridan, and he simply rode along in physical form for the heck of it. The big glowy blue-white ball was Lorien in his energy form.

[jcbatz]

I thought that the whole reason Ironheart was brought on was because Pat Tallman wasn't going to be on the series. JMS needed some way to create a super-telepath and Ironheart was a "quick fix" for the original concept.

I don't know why I think that but it is something that sticks in my head for some reason. Had Lyta been on the show in the first season there wouldn't have been the need for Jason Ironheart.

[Capt.Montoya]

jcbatz:
I think you got that from some prior discussions and related JMS posts linked in those discussions.
At least that's how I think I arrived at the same concept.

The other fix, to tie the Talia thread back to the original Vorlon enhancement of Lyta storyline would be the "VCR" recording that Kosh made of Talia's tought patterns "for the future".
Even if Pat Tallman had not returned and Andrea Thompson had left the "Talia" role could be recast with another actress receiving Talia's memories and Ironheart's gift... plus some extra Vorlon tampering.

Kinda cool that some of the ways JMS weaved the tapestry of the story of B5 can be guessed, cooler that few of those look like patches.

As for Ironheart, I don't think he "travelled" at the end, I imagine him as "difussing" into a dispersed state or into hyperspace (or thirdspace, or wherever) into a sort of hybernation, not returning before a million years had passed and other humans had achieved the "firstoneness" state.

[SLerman]

I don't recall offhand if JMS ever confirmed or denied this theory, but I think a lot of people guessed that Abbut's purpose was to bring back Talia after the implanted personality took over. When Takashima left after The Gathering, the Control thread got shifted to Talia. I would assume that at that time, nobody planned on Andrea Thompson leaving at the end of season 2. Unless the implanted personality wasn't going to take over until the end of the series, which seems weird to me, they would have needed a way to restore Talia.

[Bloodshot]

In my own personal B5 future, mankind arrives on the Vorlon homeworld and finds Ironheart there waiting for them.

[Laiden]

I think Lorien had a fish-looking Ship . . . if I recall right.

I think the Vorlons use ships just for show because when Kosh and "evil Kosh" were fighting in season 4, they went outside of the station. I think a lot of the things the First Ones do, is merely to make everyone feel comfortable around them which is why the Vorlons appear as their religious leaders/gods when outside of their encounter suit.

[Whyruss]

I think Lorien had a fish-looking Ship . . . if I recall right.

I think the Vorlons use ships just for show because when Kosh and "evil Kosh" were fighting in season 4, they went outside of the ship. I think a lot of the things the First Ones do, is merely to make everyone feel comfortable around them which is why they appear as their religious leaders/gods when outside of their encounter suit.

Good point!

[Capt.Montoya]

I think the Vorlons use ships just for show because when Kosh and "evil Kosh" were fighting in season 4, they went outside of the station. I think a lot of the things the First Ones do, is merely to make everyone feel comfortable around them which is why the Vorlons appear as their religious leaders/gods when outside of their encounter suit.

I Think that a ship is much more convenient for long distance travel than moving your energy-ball-form on your own...
B5 was "hard" SF, so even first-ones are subject to the laws of thermodynamics, you move your big energy ball a long distance, you spend energy, you might arrive a spark.
Hey! Maybe that's what happened to Ironheart, he spent almost all his energy, his very being, into moving forward in time, leaving just a spark to be revived a million years hence.

And who knows, maybe even firstones can't survive unexposed in hyperspace. Hyperspace does have effects for some (e.g. Telepaths) when not protected by a hull.

In any event, Ironheart was a one shot plot device, a deus-ex-psi-corps-machina, I'd rather speculate from things established more solidly in further seasons.

[Phil Harmonic]

I Think that a ship is much more convenient for long distance travel than moving your energy-ball-form on your own...
B5 was "hard" SF, so even first-ones are subject to the laws of thermodynamics, you move your big energy ball a long distance, you spend energy, you might arrive a spark.
Hey! Maybe that's what happened to Ironheart, he spent almost all his energy, his very being, into moving forward in time, leaving just a spark to be revived a million years hence.

And who knows, maybe even firstones can't survive unexposed in hyperspace. Hyperspace does have effects for some (e.g. Telepaths) when not protected by a hull.

In any event, Ironheart was a one shot plot device, a deus-ex-psi-corps-machina, I'd rather speculate from things established more solidly in further seasons.

I disagree, we cannot even begin to speculate what would be or would not be possible for Jason.

Vorlons still need ships to travel, he didn't.

The only other being that didn't need a ship was Lorien.

Also I don't think the great machine was THAT powerful, they fired chemical propelled rockets for goodness sakes.

Also in the future where Bab 5 was destroyed by the shadows, he doesn't seem to have made a bit of difference.