Shadows vs. Vorlons

[fgalkin]

Yes, they both were a bunch of self-righteous bastards, but which one is the lesser of two evils?

The Vorlons with their: "We're in charge, so shut up and do as you're told" attitude and their tendency to throw planet-killing tantrums, or

The Shadows, with their "We'll show up and try to kill you and if you survive we'll let you live"

Who would you choose?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Ranger1]

Of course that the Shadows are worse.

[Kevin]

Neither was any better then the other. Both had different ideologies but used similar methods and cared nothing for the younger races and the value of their lives. I have an impossible time choosing, and was always weary of the Vorlons even before and after the Shadows were introduced, which means it'd be impossible for me to choose one now if I couldn't even feel safe with the Vorlons over the Shadows back in Year 2 when things got moving. Hell I was looking to the Shadows (before I even knew of them as Shadows, or really much of anything at all) as more of an ally in Season 1 then I was the Vorlons :P

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

THE VORLONS versus THE SHADOWS

FGALKIN,

Welcome to the domain!

I have never liked pompous, arrogant characters who speak in riddles & evade direct questions while demanding blind obedience.

That said, the Vorlons look like a species with whom I might have credible interspecies miscegeny, whereas the Shadows are giant creepy-crawlies.

*************************

KEVIN,

That was a provocative assessment of the situation; thank you!

[DoctorManbot]

The Vorlons turned out to be Squids.

Floating, spooking looking ,giant energy squid things that have a severe additude problem.

Not My idea of a blind date.

[Ranger1]

And the Shadows would draw their claw and try to kill you,if you survive good if not: "Next".
I prefer the Vorlons.

[fgalkin]

I prefer the Shadows. At least they're not hyppocrites like the Vorlons. Not to mention, that it were the Vorlons who started the war, the Vorlons who created telepaths, the Vorlons who brought out the planetkillers, etc.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

Originally posted by DoctorManbot
The Vorlons turned out to be Squids.

Floating, spooking looking ,giant energy squid things that have a severe additude problem.

Not My idea of a blind date.

DOCTOR MANBOT,

I tend to think of them as angelic, despite that image you just described.

[Dr Maturin]

<< I have an impossible time choosing, and was always weary of the Vorlons even before and after the Shadows were introduced, which means it'd be impossible for me to choose one now if I couldn't even feel safe with the Vorlons over the Shadows back in Year 2 when things got moving.>>

You are speaking as if the species were one person. Kosh showed himself to be a decent person, so there must be others out there that are, as well.

The Shadows were shown to be more of an evil species because they think so unilaterally. And while the Vorlons made the teeps, the Shadows made the techno-mages. I think part of what the Vorlons did was wrong, but less so than the Shadows.

[Kevin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Kosh showed himself to be a decent person, so there must be others out there that are, as well.

Complete hindsight bias imho. Watch Season 1 over again, there's *very* little Kosh did that even *seemed* good. He was incredibly spooky most of the time, and did a number of things that seemed incredibly controlling and perhaps a bit evil. The Deathwalker event sent of numerous alarms in my head, the Talia thing *really* seemed quite evil at the time, stalking Morden seemed like another control for one reason or another for which I had *no* idea about. I can't think of an individual, single good thing that seemed like a good thing at the time of Season 1 that Kosh did, with the sole exception of telling Sinclair that he had forgotten something in the *last* episode, which seemed a bit benevolent.

Morden and the Shadows, on the other hand, saved Londo's ass by recovering the rare artifiact that would have been the downfall of his career, finishing off the Raiders, and sticking a serious slap across the face to the Narn who seemed to be determined to destroy and blow up everyone at the time of Season 1.

They *did* good things, and while they seemed quite ambiguous, it's no different then the Vorlons, who did *bad* things and still seemed quite ambiguous, so of course I wasn't about to side with either. I was in Londo's camp at the time for what he did because it sure as hell seemed like a good option at the time.

[Joseph DeMartino]

Not to mention, that it were the Vorlons who started the war

??? Which war? There have been many of them over the last million years. Are you saying they started the whole series of wars? (The show is silent on this point) Are you saying they started the most recent one? How? Shadow ships were attacking neutral vessels long before the Vorlons became actively involved in the hostilities.

the Vorlons who created telepaths

As a countermeasure to the sentients the Shadows were kidnapping, modifying, and forcing to serve as CPUs in their ships. I don't see how the Vorlons are morally worse than the Shadows in this.

the Vorlons who brought out the planetkillers, etc.

IIRC the Shadows had used their planet killer (the Death Cloud) against several worlds of the younger races long before the Vorlons, for what seems to have been the first time in their history, started blowing up planets "touched" by the Shadows.

Regards,

Joe

[Vir]

Not to mention Kosh sacrificing his life for Sherriden and his cause.

And then later fighting the 'bad' Kosh with part of Lorien.

(sounds pretty nice to me)

JMS himself agrees that Kosh 'went native'

[DoctorManbot]

Not to belabor a point....ok I will.

The Vorlons were not Angelic. They manipulated the lesser races into thinking they were, but in the end, the turned out to be..... the horribly aformentioned squiddy like things that I descibed earlier.

Both of these races manipulated the lesser races strictly for their benefit. They could care less whether an individual, or and entire race died, as long as it furthered their point... which was merely they were right.

Ill stick with the Pak Mara. At least you don't have to worry about leftovers with them.


Unless its fish.

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

THE VORLONS as ANGELS

DOCTORMANBOT,

Again, I am aware that the Vorlons were physically what you described them to be.

I disagree with your charge that they ômanipulated the lesser races into thinking that they wereö angelic on the basis that LONDO MOLLARI saw ônothingö holding CAPTAIN SHERIDAN.

POST SCRIPTUM:
DÆyou fancy a pint of ôthe great equali[s]erö?

[circularREASON]

Shadows vs. Vorlons

Lets face it.

The shadows and vorlons were as bad as one another.

They were so bad that Lorien hid himself down a pit until someone had the guts to tell them both to take a hike!