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The incident with Sheridan and Delenn's son

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  • The incident with Sheridan and Delenn's son

    In the episode "The Deconstruction of Fallen Stars" one of those arguing guys briefly goes:

    "And that incident concerning their (John and Delenn's) son..."

    but gets interrupted. This has always puzzled me.

    I think I've read somewhere that the "incident" is actually what happened when David got his keeper, as told in the book "Out of the Darkness, Legions of Fire, Book 3". I have the book, I've read it. And according to it, the incident was pretty much confined, David was saved rather quickly and the case was not widely spread as flash news in ISN. Why is a historian making it such a big deal? It doesn't fit... and Joe's story lines tend to fit!

    So... what was the incident really? What did David do or what *else* happened to him? Any ideas?

    Let me share with you my vage theory. JMS likes to forshadow things. We all know it, and love it. Now let's remember episode 5.21, "Objects at rest". John records a message for David to get on his 21st birthday.

    Quoting the episode:
    "From time to time, you will make mistakes. They're inevitable. Sometimes those mistakes will be...huge. What matters is that you learn from them. There's nothing wrong with falling down, so long as you end up just two inches taller when you pick yourself up off the floor. At times, you may end up far away from home. You may not be sure of where you belong anymore... Always be willing to fight for what you believe in. It doesn't matter if 1000 people agree with you or one person agrees with you. It doesn't matter if you stand completely alone. Fight for what you believe in. Which brings me to the first piece of advice my father ever gave me, and now I'm giving it to you. Never-... start a fight, but always finish it."

    Is it me or is there a forshadow somewhere in there?? Something wrong happening or David taking it upon himself alone to do something dangerous? My head spins! If I could talk to JMS, I'd beg him for answers! Beyond that, judging from the rest of the episode "The Deconstruction of Fallen Stars", it looks like David lead a more quiet life than his parents. He's not mentioned as a famous President or Entil'Za. Or has Joe chosen to simply keep his lips tied on this one??

    By the way, in case you haven't figured it out yet, , I confess/admit that I'm fascinated with David or the idea of him! The book doesn't focus much on him, but what it does give is very promising! After all, he's the son of John Sheridan and Delenn, even a little of his parents in him is enough! My ideal sequel to B5 would be set in the future with David as a main character. (And having him in his '30s and droolable wouldn't hurt either... )

    What a sad thing you are! Unable to answer even such a simple question without falling back on references and genealogies and what other people call you! Have you nothing of your own? Nothing to stand on that is not provided, defined, delineated, stamped, sanctioned, numbered and approved by others? How can you be expected to fight for someone else, when you haven't the fairest idea who you are?

    "Comes The Inquisitor"

  • #2
    It's been a while since I've read the book, but doesn't David cause some major havoc at the ISA headquarters in order to steal a Whitestar and take it to Centauri Prime?

    I imagine that if the Bush twins ever go into politics, some of their shenanigans will be rehashed in the media, too. And neither of them hijacked anything...yet.


    • #3
      Originally posted by white_star25
      If I could talk to JMS, I'd beg him for answers!
      From what I've had people tell me, all JMS replies when begged for answers is 'Wait and see.' I don't know if that means he doesn't know yet or if he's just not telling.

      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization we're seeing now.


      • #4
        Also keep in mind that those pundits were doing everything they could to make Sheridan look bad. I doubt they'd be above taking a minor incident involving David and trying to turn it into an interstellar incident.


        • #5
          Let's see...
          An incident where the son of the President of the Interstellar Alliance and the head of the Rangers takes a ship for a joyride causing a scandal at home.
          An incident which leads to the imprisonment of the parents by the Centauri emperor.
          An incident surrounding which the planet of Centauri Prime suffers great damage by the Drakh.
          And at the end of that incident the Centauri Emperor is dead...

          Yeah, looks pretty minor to me.

          I can see the headlines being pretty minor, even in tabloids such as Weekly Universe News and the Universal Enquirer:

          Drunken David Sheridan takes ship for a joyride to Centauri Prime and has his parents imprisoned by Emperor Londo!
          Emperor Londo dies during the incident strangled by right hand Narn of Sheridan
          Centauri Prime devastated by misterious explosions
          Flounder named Emperor

          Seriously, everything that happened couldn't be held a secret, the explanations of it all could not be complete ("yeah, we gave our son a mind controlling alien as gift of Londo, and it was those aliens that wasted Centauri Prime...") leaving room for suspicion. The involvement of David might have been minor, but the consequences surrounding that were major.

          That the general public could not know it all, but could find out that David Sheridan was at the center of the second fall of Centauri Prime, would be enough to make a scandal IMO.
          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)


          • #6
            I have heard the argument made that the "David incident" was the one where his keeper has him go to Centauri Prime, but that has never been very convincing, IMO. It is quite clear that he is an innocent victim of the Drakh and a very minor (even trivial) player in the defeat of the drakh on Centauri prime.

            I think that JMS has something else in mind and wisely is keeping it close to his vest so as to retain its value as a future story. Otherwise it is a storm in a teacup and that is inconsistent with the rest of the story.

            Evidence for that being "all there is to it" comes from a Feb 2000 JMS posting:
            >When Babylon 5 was finished, there were many plot threads left hanging -
            >some of them major ones. For example - David Sheridan's fate

            That will be covered in one of the Centauri novels being written by Peter
            Evidence against cmes from other JMS postings:

            Nov 1998
            Evan Zucker <[email protected]> asks:
            > I am purposely avoiding any spoilers for Crusade so I can enjoy
            > the episodes as I see them, but since I've read there is some
            > connection between B5 and Crusade, can you tell us whether the
            > David arc will be picked up in Crusade? Do you also appear in one
            > of the Producers photos just before the closing credits?

            It'd be hard to pick up the David arc since he'll only be about
            4 years old at the time Crusade starts.
            Here he is talking about a David "arc" which does not seem to fit a one-time event.

            In addition, he said somewhere (cannot find the quote right now) that what David did was done "because he was the son of John and Delenn and so the type to do that kind of thing" or words to that effect.

            May be just wishful thinking, but I think there is a later David Sheridan story (maybe post-dating SiL).
            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.


            • #7
              Just picking up on a minor point. Why is Vir always called flounder? Am I naive but are they comparing him to a fish? If so is it a Winter Flounder or Summer Flounder? It makes all the difference.


              • #8
                Originally posted by therichieboy
                Just picking up on a minor point. Why is Vir always called flounder? Am I naive but are they comparing him to a fish? If so is it a Winter Flounder or Summer Flounder? It makes all the difference.

                Stephen Furst has been known and loved as Kent 'Flounder' Dorfman on ƓNational Lampoon's Animal Houseƶ and in "Delta House" (1979/I) TV Series ....

                For more info:
                "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein


                • #9
                  Ah, right. Didn't see those but did love him in that asylum movie with Michael Keaton. Surprised that wasn't used in friendly mockery.


                  • #10
                    Digging out this old thread because I was reading Volume 10, 11, and 12 of the script books. I was trying to follow jms's notes about the planned fifth year arc that didn't happen. In volume 10 he says he dropped it because

                    The structure as laid out here would leave the end of season five very open-ended, which I could only allow if we were indeed doing a sequel series that involved empire building, a series that would then be in a position to resolve these threads.
                    In book 12 though, he says:

                    But because we were still talking about Crusade being, to some extent, about empire building, I was loathe to do too much of that in season five. Again, had I known we would end up not going that route on Crusade, I Would definitely have done more of a King Arthur's Ride / empire building storyline, which would have given me lots of big, meaty stories to balance out the more intimate Londo / G'Kar storyline.
                    I don't know for sure, but I am guessing that some of the notes from this planned "empire building" 5th year were added to the notecards that were thrown out in Blackpool. Deconstruction was written before those notes were trashed:

                    I hadn't had to review [my notes] prior to writing "Deconstruction" because that operated outside the five year arc so the cards weren't required.
                    But when the staff moved my belongings from the small room I'd been given into an even tinier one, in their haste to clean the place out for a paying customer they threw out all my notes on season five.
                    So 'the incident involving Sheridan and Delenn's son' could refer to this part of the planned Empire Building arc:

                    Someone will come to them claiming to be Sheridan's and Delenn's son, who has come back from the future to try and stop them from making a terrible would you react if you knew your parents were Hitlers, and you had the capacity to stop them?


                    we reveal that this person is telling the absolute truth, a truth that we have one chance to prevent from becoming a reality
                    Last edited by JoeD80; 06-03-2008, 10:09 PM.