Grey Council

[Ranger1]

After Neroon died,Delenn is forming the Grey Council again,9 caste members and the 10th in the middle,reserved to The One who is to come....

Who is The One?

[Jan]

We don't know...yet. Presumably that space will be taken by somebody who the Council feels is as wise as Dukhat since he was the last one to hold that position. It was offered to Delenn who declined and then was expelled from the Council altogether.

Jan

[Joseph DeMartino]

Who is The One?

It isn't "The One" who will follow, just "the one who will follow" The next leader of the Council. There is apparently an extended mourning period after a leader dies (nearly 10 Minbari years in Dukhat's case) before the position of the council leader or "Chosen One" is again filled.

This has nothing to do with "The One" of the Ranger's Oath, who is "Entil'Zha", the One who Creates the Future. The Entil'Zha is not the head of the Minbari civil government, but is rather a special additional title conferred on certain Anla'Shok Na (Ranger Ones)

Valen was probably also head of government for a time, in addition to being Anla'shok Na and Entil'Zha, but because the Council spent most of its time in space aboard its cruiser, and Valen's work was mostly among the Rangers on Minbar, I suspect he gave the job up once the council was running and concentrated on the Rangers and his prophecies after that.

There was no Entil'Zha after Valen for 1,000 years, until Anlashok'Na Sinclair was given the title. He was succeeded in both offices by Delenn ("Grey 17 is Missing") and she by Sheridan when he retired as President of the Alliance. ("Sleeping in Light", The Centauri Trilogy.)

It seems unlikely that the Grey Council could have gone without a leader for all those years, and Delenn would not have been available, since she was Vice President of the Alliance and Ranger One/Entil'Zha until she assumed the presidency.

Since Sinclair/Valen was "The One that Was", Delenn "The One that Is" and Sheridan "The One who will Be" and the end of the story, I suspect that none of his successors bears the title of "Entil'Zha" again. Starting with Susan Ivanova I think they only carry the title of Anlashok'Na.

Regards,

Joe

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino

Since Sinclair/Valen was "The One that Was", Delenn "The One that Is" and Sheridan "The One who will Be" and the end of the story, I suspect that none of his successors bears the title of "Entil'Zha" again. Starting with Susan Ivanova I think they only carry the title of Anlashok'Na.

The only thing that would disagree with that would be that Susan is wearing the uniform of the Entil'Zha, not the one of the Anlashok'Na as seen in "In the Beginning".

And the story of Sinclair-Delenn-Sheridan is not the only story, but one that precedes the next, great story, as said by Zathras. I get the impression that without Valen's prophecies to follow there's really no paticular reason to return to the system of using the Anlahok'Na. But there's really not a whole lot to support either theory.

[Ranger1]

First,thanks for the reply Joe,as usual breath taking LOL...
But something just doesn't add up,as you said the space is reserved to "the one" who will follow (If you look at the credits its actually The One).
The Grey Council was broken,so why they mourn after "the leader" dies if there was none.

[Kevin]

Delenn's comment seems to imply that he would be the honorary leader, for his sacrifice. Also it was the person who stayed within the Starfire wheel who was to be the leader for the next generation, so Minbari tradition would almost seem to call for it.

I most certainly agree with Joe on this one just because to have no leader (which is a *bad* thing if you remember the effects it had on the Grey Council, which Delenn most certainly does) and just a space in memory is a bit sappy and overdoing it - even for a Minbari.

[Joseph DeMartino]

(If you look at the credits its actually The One).

I think you mean "the captions", "The One" wouldn't appear in the credits since nobody played a role with that name.

The Grey Council was broken, so why they mourn after "the leader" dies if there was none.

I'd have to go back and check the DVDs. Was another leader chosen after Delenn was kicked off the council but before she disbanded it? I can't recall off the top of my head.

However, when Delenn reforms the Council, she pointedly does not become leader herself. I suspect she intended that job for Neroon, and that was one of the things spelled out in the scroll she gave to Lennier. In any event, she does not say that the 10th space is to be left empty in honor of the leader, she specifically says it is being left empty "in honor of Neroon", whose sacrifice ended the war and made both the peace and the new council possible. Even if he was never officially the head of the council he deserved the same rites and the same mourning period because of what he had done for Minbar. It seems perfectly appropriate to me.

And either way it seems utterly unconnected with "The One" as in Entil'Zha, since Delenn retains that title and someone like Sinclair, who held it before her, would obviously not be able to lead the Grey Council.

RE: The robes. I'd have to check both DVDs, but I don't think there is anything that tells us much about the Minbari robes or what they mean. Every Entil'Zha was also Analashok'Na, so there's no reason any of them couldn't have worn the robe associated with the lesser office. The Rangers are both a semi-religious and para-military organization. In many of today's religions and most of the world's militaries people of a given "rank" wear many different "uniforms" for different circumstances and occassions, most of which are variations on a single basic design, distinguishable by small differences that can only be recognized by people who have been taught to read the symbolism. In dress uniform a Brigadier General doesn't look all that different from a long-service Sergeant or other NCO, who may well have more medals and campaign ribbons than the general. Only if you have been taught that stars outrank chevrons do you know who should be saluting who first. (And even that goes out the window if the sergeant holds the Medal of Honor.)

So I wouldn't assume that the robe we see Sinclair and later Sheridan wear is the one and only Entil'Zha robe, or that it is necessarily one that the Anlashok'Na wouldn't also wear. (The Pope wears much the same vestments as an ordinary preist when celebrating mass, with a few additions.)

Regards,

Joe

[Radhil]

I'd have to go back and check the DVDs. Was another leader chosen after Delenn was kicked off the council but before she disbanded it? I can't recall off the top of my head.

It's not on the DVDs in any shape, I think.... but the novel detailing Sinclair's story introduces us to a new Council leader, His post was short lived - he was elected only as a figurehead, and his age and health prevented him from spending much time with the council. I think he lasted less than a year... so he was only around for 2259, when we see so little of the council on the show.

[Kevin]

The leader was Jenimer, and yeah it was in To Dream in the City of Sorrows.

What was *also* in To Dream in the City of Sorrows was a passage on the distinct differences between the uniform of the Anlashok'Na and that of the uniform of the Entil'Zha. Sinclair didn't wear the uniform we see him wearing in WWE when he first got there according to the novel, nor did he wear the traditional Ranger outfit, there was a paticular one designed for Anlashok'Na, which as I said, was seen in ITB.

This was the main support to my earlier comment, just because they spend a bit of time in that novel highlighting the distinct differences between the uniforms (to which we later saw on film)

[Ranger1]

Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
I think you mean "the captions", "The One" wouldn't appear in the credits since nobody played a role with that name.

yes i do mean the captions,sorry.

[Ausir]

Dukhat was not the last one - the Chosen One (not to confuse with The One), was always a leader of the Grey Council, although not part of it (Chosen Ones dress in white, not grey). After the death of Dukhat there was no Chosen One for fourteen years, and the Grey Council ruled Minbar, but during the 2nd season Jenimer of Religious Caste was elected the new Chosen One (as shown in the first 4 comics, and in "To Dream in the City of Sorrows") Before Dukhat, most chosen ones were in fact just figureheads in the hands of the Grey Council.