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  • #46
    Originally posted by EarthandBeyond View Post
    How was the story-line?
    The story-line (which I consider the plot, not the dialogue) was very formulaic. We have seen this story a hundred times before. Sixty of those times it was executed better.

    It is intersting to compare this story with JMS's ideas for the "Star Trek reboot." Lots of simlarities.
    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by grumbler View Post
      It is intersting to compare this story with JMS's ideas for the "Star Trek reboot." Lots of simlarities.
      How so? Specifically?

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #48
        We saw Ranger ships running away in B5
        I keep reading this, but I can't remember when. We saw intelligence gathering ships leave hostile territory to deliver messages, and we saw some Ranger ships withdraw under orders while another continued to engage the enemy - in both cases leaving was an essential part of the mission they were performing. We never saw a Ranger ship break off combat because it was losing and run away. On the contrary, when Delenn barely escaped with her life from the first encounter with the Drakh, she immediately turned around and made a near-suicidal charge against the enemy.

        I suspect that one of the things JMS intended to do with the series was explore how the influx of Humans and other aliens would reshape the Rangers, which were still very much a tradition-bound (not to say hidebound) Minbari organization.

        The story-line (which I consider the plot, not the dialogue) was very formulaic. We have seen this story a hundred times before.
        You could say much the same about The Gathering and most of the first season. G'Kar the Bad Buy from the "warrior race", check. Londo the comic relief, check. Vir the blundering clown, check. Oh, wait, all of them changed JMS drew them in strong, obvious colors so that he would have something for them to develop from and put what they became in sharp relief. So he had to emphasize how rigid and out-of-date the Ranger code was in order to show how it would be reformed under the Alliance.

        Regards,

        Joe
        Joseph DeMartino
        Sigh Corps
        Pat Tallman Division

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino View Post
          You could say much the same about The Gathering and most of the first season. G'Kar the Bad Buy from the "warrior race", check. Londo the comic relief, check. Vir the blundering clown, check. Oh, wait, all of them changed JMS drew them in strong, obvious colors so that he would have something for them to develop from and put what they became in sharp relief. So he had to emphasize how rigid and out-of-date the Ranger code was in order to show how it would be reformed under the Alliance.

          Regards,

          Joe
          But Joe, that was B5 and this is The Legend of The Rangers! You can't expect that the characters would grow and develop! Can't you see the difference between the two? </sarcasm>
          ---
          Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
          www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino View Post
            I keep reading this, but I can't remember when. We saw intelligence gathering ships leave hostile territory to deliver messages, and we saw some Ranger ships withdraw under orders while another continued to engage the enemy - in both cases leaving was an essential part of the mission they were performing. We never saw a Ranger ship break off combat because it was losing and run away. On the contrary, when Delenn barely escaped with her life from the first encounter with the Drakh, she immediately turned around and made a near-suicidal charge against the enemy.
            You saw it in the episode "The Long Night" where Captain Ericsson tells his accompanying ships to "get away" because they are attacked by overwhelming forces of the Shadows. And they did, though they didn't know they were only there as part of a strategy.

            Delenn's counter-attack was clearly not "near-suicidal" as she and the White Stars kicked butt as soon as they had evaded the poor tactical situation they had been placed in by Forell's miscalculations about the Drakh. She had no problems with running away to begin with. Turvall does not chastise Rastenn for not getting involved in the battle with trace, but simply points out that death will always be meaningful if it comes when in "full pursuit of our heart" or words to that effect.

            I suspect that one of the things JMS intended to do with the series was explore how the influx of Humans and other aliens would reshape the Rangers, which were still very much a tradition-bound (not to say hidebound) Minbari organization.
            The Rangers I saw in the show were anything but hidebound. In fact, Turval selects the two poorest students in the meditation class to join him in visiting babylon 5 in the episode "Learning Curve." That is the opposite of hidebound, I should think. Maybe JMS wasn't doing as you suggest at all.

            You could say much the same about The Gathering and most of the first season.
            Perhaps you could. I couldn't. But, everyone's mileage differs.

            JMS is best when he takes familiar problems and poses unfamiliar solutions. The unbeatable enemy falling for the Trojan Horse is positively Bronze Age problem-solving.
            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

            Comment


            • #51
              I finanly got around, and bought the DvD.
              I.... oooo...I...Arghhh....What the!!!!.....Nooo.... How cou.... I am just speachless, to put it in words.


              That was the best 86 minutes, i ever spended watching a Movie, after i finished watching all 5 seasons of Babylon 5, a few years ago.
              The Story-line, the Cast, the Script, the SGI ( or what ever they called now) - they are simply brilliant!
              And that new Fiering system, that replaced the usual -panels and buttons - that is so High tech. I bet it came from Minbari.
              Wow, just WOW! I really didnt expected anything like this.
              Way to go JMS for wrighting it, and to all thouse people who make it happend!
              Hot darn!
              "We are the universe, trying to understand itself."

              Comment


              • #52
                well
                at least it's gone one fan.
                Phaze
                on the "annoying sober, 27 days left" ID
                "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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                • #53
                  Ehh, i cant stop on woundering about, what kind of TV-show this would have turned in to. That whole new ancient race, even deadlier then Shadows.
                  And the cast, such a cool Actors.
                  Would have finnaly had a chance, to explore Minbar, probably.
                  New planets, new races, new adventures....
                  "We are the universe, trying to understand itself."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I agree, EarthandBeyond. I liked the characters and the chemistry they already had and I looked forward to a less angst-y show than B5 was. Sure, there were flaws, but I really wished we could have seen more of this aspect of the B5 universe.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I liked the opening credits.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by grumbler View Post
                        I didn't care for much in the pilot at all, and was somewhat relieved that it didn't make it to series, because I think we may have seen the death of the franchise if it had.
                        I was just thinking the same thing. It's seems that for once, Sci-Fi did us a favor, not for going for this pilot in the first place, but for not continuing it.

                        Also, a few minutes ago, I went back and reread the January 2002 comments I made on rastb5m about the Rangers pilot, and I was a lot more positive about the pilot then, than I am now.

                        With the Rangers pilot, the more I watch it, the more I can't stand it. With Crusade, I had the opposite reaction. I didn't much care for Crusade at first, but each successive time I watch Crusade, I like it more. <shrug>



                        Originally posted by grumbler View Post
                        It is hard to say whether the acting made the dialogue sound so bad, or it was just bad dialogue.
                        Man, is that ever true!


                        Originally posted by grumbler View Post
                        In any case, other than martell and Dulann, I was left pretty cold to all of the characters, who seemed stereotypes.
                        Martell seemed to be Mr. Exposition, to me. I liked Dulann, Na'Feel and Firell. I could see the latter two having a bit of a mischievous, irreverent streak to them. Can't you picture Firell (the healer) as the type that jabbed Zack with the sewing needle in B5?

                        Zack: She did that on purpose.
                        Lennier: Yes, I think she did.
                        Lennier to Minbari seamstress (in Minbari): Next time, use a bigger needle.
                        Mac Breck (KoshN)
                        ------------------
                        Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                        JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                        Babylon 5 is the football.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jan View Post
                          I agree, EarthandBeyond. I liked the characters and the chemistry they already had and I looked forward to a less angst-y show than B5 was. Sure, there were flaws, but I really wished we could have seen more of this aspect of the B5 universe.

                          Jan
                          Yes Yes of course!They had some really nice chemistry between characters.
                          And specially this part about more aspects of B5 universe. Like Rangers, Minbar and there people, perhapes something more about Earth ( i always like the way Earth Starships looked, really human made) But specially about Rangers.
                          Ever since they introduced Ranger Marcus in Season 3, it became my favorite character up untill his end. And wow, what an end he gave us. Saved the woman he loved. Wow what a way to go! Would have deffinatly liked to learn some more about Rangers life, in between moments.
                          And the SGI of course. Wow i havent seen such nice SGI work, well like ever! Specially in B5 universe.
                          Last edited by EarthandBeyond; 02-20-2007, 03:41 PM.
                          "We are the universe, trying to understand itself."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I think it would have been a "trek"-like series. That could be good, and I think there would be continuity, with JMS at the steering wheel. In that regard it would have been similar to Crusade, but without "uebership" (sorry about that... hmm... no, not sory... only sorry if I hurt someones feelings) going to find a cure, instead lil runner going where it's dirty. So I would have expected to see more crime, more bottom line of politics and societies, more working people... like a mix of sector grey and brown 8o)

                            And I liked the actors. Granted, they didn't have the best lines, but they where believable, with exception of the "comical relief" (but who knows, maybe there would have been a touching story line about him. Something about honesty, about wisdom. Never shoot a character because he starts out as a comical release). Call me crazy, but I liked the way the Narn engineer was portraied, like me when the computers start acting up 8o)

                            And I also liked that the small, beaten ship would survive more battle than the shiny, new and *big* ship. There is more to that picture than most people think. The more experience you have, the more you can survive. That idea was only dimmed because the crew was new to the ship... and the other idea interconnected with that one was: It is harder to live for something than to die for something. A classic...

                            PeAcE
                            greetings from austria, best known for its history and fine wine... feels like a wine cellar on a graveyard 8-)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Harrdy
                              And I liked the actors. Granted, they didn't have the best lines, but they where believable, with exception of the "comical relief" (but who knows, maybe there would have been a touching story line about him. Something about honesty, about wisdom. Never shoot a character because he starts out as a comical release). Call me crazy, but I liked the way the Narn engineer was portraied, like me when the computers start acting up 8o)
                              I always assumed that Tirk was going to end up being more than just comic relief since in B5-proper we had Vir start off as goofy and bumbling and turn and have some major dramatic moments of great poignancy. I also really liked the Nart engineer; I loved how when Martel went and asked her about the engines at the engine room and she's all "Oh, just a little bit of fine-tuning" and then as Martel sort of leans to the side to try to look in past her, she leans with him to keep his view obstructed. I think that was totally funny.

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                              • #60
                                Mis-post. Mea culpa
                                Last edited by grumbler; 02-21-2007, 05:44 PM.
                                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                                Comment

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